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	<title>Comments on: Why buy the cow when the Malkin is free?</title>
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	<link>http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2008/02/27/why-buy-the-cow-when-the-malkin-is-free/</link>
	<description>&#34;...a somewhat popular blogger&#34;</description>
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		<title>By: JEdgar</title>
		<link>http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2008/02/27/why-buy-the-cow-when-the-malkin-is-free/comment-page-1/#comment-5279</link>
		<dc:creator>JEdgar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 06:47:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2008/02/27/why-buy-the-cow-when-the-malkin-is-free/#comment-5279</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It underestimates people’s ability to sense bullshit and it averages out on-camera phoney with off-camera reality. Here’s a thought experiment - clerk hands someone a donut with their bare hands. Isn’t that risking an epidemic? Cholera? E-coli?  Death to the elderly and the infirmed?&lt;br /&gt;
Where are the SWAT teams? Is anyone going to jail for that?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It underestimates people’s ability to sense bullshit and it averages out on-camera phoney with off-camera reality. Here’s a thought experiment &#8211; clerk hands someone a donut with their bare hands. Isn’t that risking an epidemic? Cholera? E-coli?  Death to the elderly and the infirmed?<br />
Where are the SWAT teams? Is anyone going to jail for that?</p>
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		<title>By: dsidhe</title>
		<link>http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2008/02/27/why-buy-the-cow-when-the-malkin-is-free/comment-page-1/#comment-5269</link>
		<dc:creator>dsidhe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 01:27:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2008/02/27/why-buy-the-cow-when-the-malkin-is-free/#comment-5269</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Is it worth noting that silence doesn’t mean we’re on the side of the harassers? In that circumstance, I probably would have not said anything. Not because I hate Muslims, but because I have PTSD and I absolutely shy away from loud confrontations. I associate yelling with someone getting hit, and so when the volume goes up, I blank out. This doesn’t make me an intolerant yokel, it makes me someone still trying to deal with very bad messes in my past. Likewise it doesn’t make someone intolerant if they’re autistic or mentally ill in some way and don’t understand what’s going on. Nor does it make them intolerant if they have a hearing problem and can’t hear what’s going on. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Lots of people would be silent in the face of this for reasons that have nothing to do with bigotry and everything to do with the way people who are very much like each other interact. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It may very well be a moral failing, but should not be held up to ridicule by people who have no interest in understanding why specific people act as they do.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So this kind of gotcha scenario, aside from treating people like guinea pigs and aside from allowing possibly inaccurate generalizations, also has the potential to further screw up people who are already emotionally screwed up. After seeing something like this go on, you can bet I’d be headed back home to hide from people for the next couple days. I can’t imagine I’m the only one. And anyone who found out this was a setup and they individually were being judged on spontaneous reactions to unexpected situations may very well assume the same thing is happening the next time they see a situation that seems to call for their intervention, and that may very well make them even less likely to intervene next time.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’m specifically referring to the ones who didn’t say anything, not to the ones who offered praise to the bigot actor, which is itself problematic in different ways as Quaker and Sophronia point out.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is it worth noting that silence doesn’t mean we’re on the side of the harassers? In that circumstance, I probably would have not said anything. Not because I hate Muslims, but because I have PTSD and I absolutely shy away from loud confrontations. I associate yelling with someone getting hit, and so when the volume goes up, I blank out. This doesn’t make me an intolerant yokel, it makes me someone still trying to deal with very bad messes in my past. Likewise it doesn’t make someone intolerant if they’re autistic or mentally ill in some way and don’t understand what’s going on. Nor does it make them intolerant if they have a hearing problem and can’t hear what’s going on. </p>
<p>Lots of people would be silent in the face of this for reasons that have nothing to do with bigotry and everything to do with the way people who are very much like each other interact. </p>
<p>It may very well be a moral failing, but should not be held up to ridicule by people who have no interest in understanding why specific people act as they do.</p>
<p>So this kind of gotcha scenario, aside from treating people like guinea pigs and aside from allowing possibly inaccurate generalizations, also has the potential to further screw up people who are already emotionally screwed up. After seeing something like this go on, you can bet I’d be headed back home to hide from people for the next couple days. I can’t imagine I’m the only one. And anyone who found out this was a setup and they individually were being judged on spontaneous reactions to unexpected situations may very well assume the same thing is happening the next time they see a situation that seems to call for their intervention, and that may very well make them even less likely to intervene next time.</p>
<p>I’m specifically referring to the ones who didn’t say anything, not to the ones who offered praise to the bigot actor, which is itself problematic in different ways as Quaker and Sophronia point out.</p>
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		<title>By: captphealy</title>
		<link>http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2008/02/27/why-buy-the-cow-when-the-malkin-is-free/comment-page-1/#comment-5268</link>
		<dc:creator>captphealy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 01:19:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2008/02/27/why-buy-the-cow-when-the-malkin-is-free/#comment-5268</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It all boils down to what my mom once said (although, at the time, we all - she included - thought she was kidding):&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“Never do anything in public you wouldn’t want Allen Funt to put on TV.”&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It all boils down to what my mom once said (although, at the time, we all &#8211; she included &#8211; thought she was kidding):</p>
<p>“Never do anything in public you wouldn’t want Allen Funt to put on TV.”</p>
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		<title>By: Hatmandu</title>
		<link>http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2008/02/27/why-buy-the-cow-when-the-malkin-is-free/comment-page-1/#comment-5267</link>
		<dc:creator>Hatmandu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 01:05:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2008/02/27/why-buy-the-cow-when-the-malkin-is-free/#comment-5267</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Shorter Malkin;  Stop pulling back the curtain on my supporters!  They no likey the sunlight!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shorter Malkin;  Stop pulling back the curtain on my supporters!  They no likey the sunlight!</p>
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		<title>By: quakerinabasement</title>
		<link>http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2008/02/27/why-buy-the-cow-when-the-malkin-is-free/comment-page-1/#comment-5266</link>
		<dc:creator>quakerinabasement</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 01:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2008/02/27/why-buy-the-cow-when-the-malkin-is-free/#comment-5266</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;aimai, I do understand what you’re getting at. My beef is with staging an act of intolerance using actors, then capturing the reactions of unsuspecting bystanders to make the point.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Without the staging, I doubt the bystanders would have gone out of their way to offend anyone. If keeping our failures to ourselves isn’t good enough, we’re all in trouble.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>aimai, I do understand what you’re getting at. My beef is with staging an act of intolerance using actors, then capturing the reactions of unsuspecting bystanders to make the point.</p>
<p>Without the staging, I doubt the bystanders would have gone out of their way to offend anyone. If keeping our failures to ourselves isn’t good enough, we’re all in trouble.</p>
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		<title>By: quakerinabasement</title>
		<link>http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2008/02/27/why-buy-the-cow-when-the-malkin-is-free/comment-page-1/#comment-5265</link>
		<dc:creator>quakerinabasement</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 01:01:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2008/02/27/why-buy-the-cow-when-the-malkin-is-free/#comment-5265</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;But its much more subtle than “they’ve discovered a handful of yokels…”&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Only if I’m not the yokel caught on camera.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>But its much more subtle than “they’ve discovered a handful of yokels…”</em></p>
<p>Only if I’m not the yokel caught on camera.</p>
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		<title>By: sophronia</title>
		<link>http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2008/02/27/why-buy-the-cow-when-the-malkin-is-free/comment-page-1/#comment-5263</link>
		<dc:creator>sophronia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 00:53:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2008/02/27/why-buy-the-cow-when-the-malkin-is-free/#comment-5263</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I object to these sort of gotcha scenarios as well. I think they’re very much counterproductive to the supposed purpose of promoting tolerance through shame — they make ordinary people feel targeted by the elite liberals and their fictional Lapdog Media, and they make the liberals and media people feel increasingly self-righteous and smug about the rest of the country, even though 99.9999999% of them weren’t involved in any of this.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I think it says enough about the technique that if Malkin fans staged any of the scenarios she mentioned in her post, such as the professor at a university wearing a W shirt, she and her minions would amplify every critical remark and screech for years about how it proves every liberal out there is Josef Goebbels’s spiritual heir.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I object to these sort of gotcha scenarios as well. I think they’re very much counterproductive to the supposed purpose of promoting tolerance through shame — they make ordinary people feel targeted by the elite liberals and their fictional Lapdog Media, and they make the liberals and media people feel increasingly self-righteous and smug about the rest of the country, even though 99.9999999% of them weren’t involved in any of this.</p>
<p>I think it says enough about the technique that if Malkin fans staged any of the scenarios she mentioned in her post, such as the professor at a university wearing a W shirt, she and her minions would amplify every critical remark and screech for years about how it proves every liberal out there is Josef Goebbels’s spiritual heir.</p>
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		<title>By: aimai</title>
		<link>http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2008/02/27/why-buy-the-cow-when-the-malkin-is-free/comment-page-1/#comment-5262</link>
		<dc:creator>aimai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 00:48:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2008/02/27/why-buy-the-cow-when-the-malkin-is-free/#comment-5262</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;But its much more subtle than “they’ve discovered a handful of yokels…” quakerinabasement. Actually, if you read the piece, its a fairly interesting look at the way muslims experience our silence in the face of social harrassment.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;aimai&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But its much more subtle than “they’ve discovered a handful of yokels…” quakerinabasement. Actually, if you read the piece, its a fairly interesting look at the way muslims experience our silence in the face of social harrassment.</p>
<p>aimai</p>
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		<title>By: quakerinabasement</title>
		<link>http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2008/02/27/why-buy-the-cow-when-the-malkin-is-free/comment-page-1/#comment-5261</link>
		<dc:creator>quakerinabasement</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 23:14:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2008/02/27/why-buy-the-cow-when-the-malkin-is-free/#comment-5261</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;I could see if she was objecting to the tactics&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I think she is objecting to the tactics. And whether she is or not, I am.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;A network TV “news” organization has uncovered a handful of yokels who hold prejudiced, bigoted views about people who are different from themselves? Well, hell yes, then. Let’s take ol’ Bubba Dumptytruck who was minding his own business having a coffee and a strudel and out the sonofabitch for his hatefulness and xenophobia on the national teevee.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You know, I don’t agree with the people who gave a big thumbs up to the actor portraying the sales clerk. I’d like to tell myself I’d show the same bravery as the women who stood up for the actor-customer. But the network has used its vast resources to hold up to scorn a tiny handful of people who were going about their business and just stumbled into this little play-acting scene. Maybe these people do hold hateful views about Muslims–but without Primetime Live to stage this scenario, they likely would have just kept their opinions to themselves.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This isn’t journalism, it’s bullying. Americans believe hold all sorts of beliefs. Some of us–or our family members or our friends–believe things that are stupid or ugly or bigoted. I don’t think that warrants a national TV network staging an event to try to make them reveal themselves on a coast-to-coast broadcast.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>I could see if she was objecting to the tactics</em></p>
<p>I think she is objecting to the tactics. And whether she is or not, I am.</p>
<p>A network TV “news” organization has uncovered a handful of yokels who hold prejudiced, bigoted views about people who are different from themselves? Well, hell yes, then. Let’s take ol’ Bubba Dumptytruck who was minding his own business having a coffee and a strudel and out the sonofabitch for his hatefulness and xenophobia on the national teevee.</p>
<p>You know, I don’t agree with the people who gave a big thumbs up to the actor portraying the sales clerk. I’d like to tell myself I’d show the same bravery as the women who stood up for the actor-customer. But the network has used its vast resources to hold up to scorn a tiny handful of people who were going about their business and just stumbled into this little play-acting scene. Maybe these people do hold hateful views about Muslims–but without Primetime Live to stage this scenario, they likely would have just kept their opinions to themselves.</p>
<p>This isn’t journalism, it’s bullying. Americans believe hold all sorts of beliefs. Some of us–or our family members or our friends–believe things that are stupid or ugly or bigoted. I don’t think that warrants a national TV network staging an event to try to make them reveal themselves on a coast-to-coast broadcast.</p>
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		<title>By: dsidhe</title>
		<link>http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2008/02/27/why-buy-the-cow-when-the-malkin-is-free/comment-page-1/#comment-5259</link>
		<dc:creator>dsidhe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 23:04:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2008/02/27/why-buy-the-cow-when-the-malkin-is-free/#comment-5259</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It’s not even Jay Leno, it’s juvenile Gotcha. If I watched more of this stuff, I’d never leave the house for fear of being involuntarily included in some goddamned little impromptu psych test. I’m cynical enough about my interactions with other human beings, I can only imagine how much worse it would be if I suspected more of them were stalking horses for TV cameras. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As you note, it’s interesting that considering the various actual ethical problems with this kind of thing as a general tactic, that Malkin’s bunch grabs for the specifics (It would have been okay if it was a Jewish person! Or a W supporter!) in making their objections.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It’s not even Jay Leno, it’s juvenile Gotcha. If I watched more of this stuff, I’d never leave the house for fear of being involuntarily included in some goddamned little impromptu psych test. I’m cynical enough about my interactions with other human beings, I can only imagine how much worse it would be if I suspected more of them were stalking horses for TV cameras. </p>
<p>As you note, it’s interesting that considering the various actual ethical problems with this kind of thing as a general tactic, that Malkin’s bunch grabs for the specifics (It would have been okay if it was a Jewish person! Or a W supporter!) in making their objections.</p>
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