I’m sure that the some of the better feminist blogs will be providing their own take on Students of Virginity, but I found these separate passages to be, well, somewhat humorous. To set the stage, Harvard student Janie Fredell heads up a abstinence/virginity club after falling victim to the obligatory shock of the "hook-up culture" (go here to see where this is an article of faith).
She did nothing about it until her sophomore year. Then she began to read in The Harvard Crimson, the student newspaper, about a new student group on campus — a band of celibates, men and women, calling themselves True Love Revolution. They were pushing, for reasons entirely secular, the cause of premarital sexual abstinence, and Fredell, by this time, was utterly committed to abstinence. She could hardly bear to see it ridiculed in The Crimson. An article about the group’s ice cream social appeared under the headline “Not Tonight, Honey, I Have a Brain Freeze.” A columnist who wrote about the group joked of getting “very, very aroused” just thinking about virgins and wondered if such people might be available for “dry humping.”
“It’s an odd thing to see one’s lifestyle essentially attacked in The Crimson,” Fredell said. She began to feel a need to stand up for her beliefs, and what she believed in more than anything at Harvard was the value of not having premarital sex. In an essay she wrote for The Crimson, she asserted that “virginity is extremely alluring,” though its “mysterious allure . . . is not rooted in an image of innocence and purity, but rather in the notion of strength.” As she told me later, “It takes a strong woman to be abstinent, and that’s the sort of woman I want to be.”
Fair enough. And so she arms herself with the intellectual foundation to back up her beliefs.
“People just don’t get it,” Fredell said. “Everyone thinks we’re trying to promote this idea of the meek little virgin female.” She said she was doing no such thing. “I care deeply for women’s rights,” she said. Fredell was studying not just religion but also gender politics — and was reading Pope John Paul II’s “Theology of the Body” alongside John Stuart Mill’s “Subjection of Women.” She had awakened to the wage gap, to forced sterilization and female genital mutilation — to the different ways that men have, she said, of controlling women. One of these was sexual. Fredell had seen it often in her own life — men pushing for sex, she said, just to “have something to say in the locker room,” women feeling pressured to have sex in order to maintain a relationship. The more she studied and learned, the more Fredell came to realize that women suffer from having premarital sex, “due to a cultural double standard,” she said, “which devalues women for their sexual pasts and glorifies men for theirs.”
She said she read in Mill that women are subordinated in relationships as a result of “socially constructed norms.” If men are commonly more promiscuous than women, it is only because the culture allows it, she said. Fredell was here to turn society around. “It’s extremely countercultural,” she said, for a woman to assert control over her own body. It is, in fact, a feminist notion. Conventional feminism, she explained, teaches that control of your body means the freedom to have sex without consequences — sex like a man. “I am an unconventional feminist,” Fredell said, in the sense that she asserts control by choosing not to have sex — by telling men, no, absolutely not.
While Fredell framed her own abstinence in a feminist perspective, she was careful to say that women were not the only ones to benefit. “It’s not all about protecting women,” she said. “It’s about protecting people.” To prove her point, she said the membership of True Love Revolution was equally divided between women and men.
One man who was committed to abstinence was her boyfriend. He wasn’t talking, but I had talked to Leo Keliher, the 20-year-old co-president of True Love Revolution, in another Cambridge restaurant.
Jumping forward from here is where it gets …interesting:
The one great difference between them seemed to be in their experience of abstinence. Fredell was unaware of that gap. Whenever sexual urges struck, she told me, she was able to manage them by going on a long run and assumed that everyone should be able to do the same. “The biological drive can be overcome,” she said. “It’s not like it reaches a peak, and you have to go out and have sex.”
“And you don’t go down the street thinking you’d like to have sex with him, him, him and him?” I asked.
“No!” she said, abruptly. “Is that what men do?”
It seemed a good time to talk with her about what else Keliher had told me. He described the act he has never experienced as something “breathtakingly powerful” that “lights all of your body on fire.” He spoke of his lust as “this untamed beast.”
Fredell was incredulous: “Leo said that?”
He told me that he struggles constantly against “physical lustful temptation” — that he can be aroused just by a woman’s touch, by even a look at a woman or at a photo or sometimes by “thoughts that just come out of the blue — basically pornography in my head.” They come to him when he’s merely walking around campus, or even when he’s alone in the library — “like a fly buzzing around.”
To the matter of masturbation, he said, “This was really tough for me . . . because when you have a habit that’s so deeply ingrained, it’s hard to stop.”
Fredell, when asked about masturbation, just said, “Oh, God, no!”
Actually most people say, "Oh, God, yessssss!" but then Fredell isn’t part of ‘the club‘ so she wouldn’t know about that or the secret handshake (insert your own joke here) (insert your own joke about ‘insert’ here).
But never mind that.
Perhaps I’m just being naive here (even more so than Ms. Fredell) but I have a hard time imagining a twenty-something woman who appears to be fairly bright, bright enough to be accepted into Harvard at least, who is shocked, shocked by the plainly stated fact that men (or women) look at other men (or women) on the street or wherever and think, "I’ll have an order of that with nothing on it".
I’ve stated before that some choose abstinence while others have it thrust upon them, but I think that when one chooses to speak for either a generation or for a club of twenty-four virgins that so interested the New York Times, one should have a basic grasp of the hot and bothereds.
Put down the John Stuart Mill, pick up the Danielle Steele.
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Anyone who doesn’t want to engage in premarital sex is certainly entitled to abstain, and they don’t have to check in with me to see if their reasons are valid. But I agree with Tbogg that before one chooses to speak for anyone else they should have some knowledge about the subject.
“Conventional feminism, she explained, teaches that control of your body means the freedom to have sex without consequences — sex like a man.”
No, Ms. Fredell. That is not what conventional feminism teaches. You need to either brush up on your reading comprehension or talk (which includes listening) with some serious “conventional” feminists so you will have at least a cursory understanding of the subject. You don’t seem to know much about any of the topics you speak about.
There has never been a shortage of people willing to speak for others without actually understanding (or caring about) the feelings of the others they claim to speak for.
This is an equal opportunity flaw, found at every point along the political and social spectrums, and it shows no signs of abating.
That, in turn, is a good thing, as these folks provide endless snark fodder for our amusement.
I read this article, too, and I got the impression that a lot of these kids were simply grasping for non-Catholic ideas to justify their lifestyle choices, and in the process indirectly (or maybe not) insulting feminists and people’s intelligence.
her lifestyle choice might fall under feminism, but it doesn’t make her special or “unconventionally” feminist…or a spokesperson. like the part about a “special, untouched” intellectual connection–please. these are the type of people who, when they do end up married and have sex, realise they never really had any idea what they were waxing poetic about.
and for the love of common sense, was she really THAT surprised by the “hookup culture” (no one calls it that but out-of-touch sociologists, by the way…) she found at a university? it’s not even that hard to avoid anyway. I go to a school with at least two times the student body of Harvard and I certainly don’t find myself having to deal with this “hookup culture” in my daily life, let alone feeling obligated to defend myself from it.
I feel like she’s treating Harvard as if it were junior high writ Ivy–isn’t that the time to be over-simplistically-labelling oneself? the nice thing about college is that you can do whatever (bad-ass or getting-no-ass alike) and no one really cares.
sorry. rant over. continue snarking…
Regarding “… I have a hard time imagining a twenty-something woman who appears to be fairly bright, bright enough to be accepted into Harvard at least …” I think there’s ‘intelligent’ and there’s ’smart’. One can be one or the other, both or neither. Ms. Fredell seems to be intelligent – smart, eh, not so much.
Captphealy said “abating,” uhhuh, huhuh… Never mind.
Well, once you allow for the NYT’s endless narcissistic fascination with every twitch and tremor along the vining Ivys, factor the number of times a modestly trained young woman has walked into to find her roomate(s) humping in the common areas, remember the collegian urge to shock elders at whatever sacrifice of personal dignity, and note the historical tendency for women to underplay their level of sexual experience and men to overplay theirs… I’d estimate that Ms. Fredell and Mr. Keliher are probably pretty well matched. Despite our optimistic American faith in the limitless potential of human sexual desire — almost our last shared religious belief — the sad scientific fact is that Teh Urge is going to be more urgent for some of us than for others. I just hope Ms. Fredell got some kind of compensation out of this (at least some new Club Abstinence members, or some speaking offers) because sooner or later this article is going to be an immense source of embarrassment to her. And of course the NYTimes should be ashamed of itself, but that’s a given with anything involving the NYTimes.
“what she believed in more than anything at Harvard was the value of not having premarital sex” — I read that, and tears came to my eyes. Here’s a young woman fortunate to be at one of the world’s preeminent institutions of higher learning, surrounded by the art and culture and beauty of New England, fellow students with whom to interact… and, yet, the one thing she’s obsessively focussed on is how *not* to have orgasms?!? I’m sorry, but that’s just sad. By all means, be picky, be an un-slut, be determined not to screw around just for the hell of it. But lighten up, lady, and smell the roses. Nobody’s going to reward you for this ridiculous display of ill-fated determination; God thinks you’re a complete jerk — he gave you all those fun bits for a reason, you know…
Why oh why is the NYT (along with everybody else) accepting that the only two options for college kids are abstinence and fuckfuckfuck like a bunny? There are many other points along the continuum, and that’s where most people, I think, end up — some combination of serial monogamy and the occasional (or not so) wild and slightly embarrassing shag with the kid from Statistics you’ve been crushing on all semester. You know, while you figure out about relationships and sex and stuff.
Gee I hope they make good furniture like the Shakers. Somehow I don’t think they will.
Who do you suppose sells that fetching white nighty? It looks just the thing for the summertime….
Thingwarbler? Me too. I’m pretty sure I’d have been all about the libraries and stuff, myself.
I agree with thingwarbler. I feel sorry for this not-so-merry band of celibates. IMO, abstinence is the very opposite of a “lifestyle,” but if that’s what they want it’s a free country. But while Ms. Fredell thinks that she asserts control by choosing not to have sex she could just as easily “assert control” by choosing to have sex. As with abortion, the control comes from having the choice in the first place. That said, it’s sad to see something so essentially natural and fun as sex be infused with all this “control” stuff, for men or women. You only get to be young once.
I had a girlfriend whose roommate was an “abstainer” (and not presumably of the sheets). She did well in school, Honor Roll, you know.
But talking to her was like talking to a very polite junior high student. There was a level of emotional immaturity that was inescapable.
It sounds from the article that Ms Fredell has not experienced even the warm glow of orgasmic solace by her own damn self.
So sad.
What seems to underly even “feminist” abstainers is not that sex is something sacred to be saved until marriage, but that it is some terrifying uncontrollable beast that must be starved and chained in the basement lest it kill all the villagers.
In fact, what Ms. Fredell is obviously unaware of is that sex is one of life’s greatest perks. It’s more or less a biological imperative (as Leo surely knows), and it can knit you together with your partner on a profound level. Or it can be just plain fun and hopefully mildly shocking.
But this idea that sex is to be avoided? I don’t care if your reasoning comes from Mill, the Pope or Andrea Dworkin: it’s loopy.
This made me think of the Shakers as well. When I went to visit the Shaker museum in New Hampshire, they said that the Shakers came up with the idea of abstaining from sex because they were actually progressives and couldn’t conceive of a way to have equality between the sexes except to take away sex. But that was 170 years ago! Wow.
ahh, now I remember who she reminds me of: Sir Galahad… the Chaste.
ZOOT: Prepare a bed for our guest.
MIDGET and CREPPER: Oh thank you thank you thank you–
ZOOT: Away away vile temptress! The beds here are warm and soft — and
very, very big.
GALAHAD: Well, look, I-I-uh–
ZOOT: What is your name, handsome knight?
GALAHAD: Sir Galahad… the Chaste.
ZOOT: Mine is Zoot… just Zoot. Oh, but come!
GALAHAD: Look, please! In God’s name, show me the Grail!
ZOOT: Oh, you have suffered much! You are delirious!
GALAHAD: L-look, I have seen it! It is here, in the–
ZOOT: Sir Galahad! You would not be so ungallant as to refuse our
hospitality.
GALAHAD: Well, I-I-uh–
ZOOT: Oh, I am afraid our life must seem very dull and quiet compared
to yours. We are but eight score young blondes and brunettes, all between
sixteen and nineteen and a half, cut off in this castle with no one to
protect us! Oh, it is a lonely life — bathing, dressing, undressing,
making exciting underwear…. We are just not used to handsome knights.
Nay, nay, come, come, you may lie here. Oh, but you are wounded!
GALAHAD: No, no — i-it’s nothing!
ZOOT: Oh, but you must see the doctors immediately! No, no, please,
lie down.
[clap clap]
PIGLET: Ah. What seems to be the trouble?
GALAHAD: They’re doctors?!
ZOOT: Uh, they’ve had a basic medical training, yes.
GALAHAD: B-but–
ZOOT: Oh, come come, you must try to rest! Doctor Piglet, Doctor
Winston, practice your art.
PIGLET: Try to relax.
GALAHAD: Are you sure that’s necessary?
PIGLET: We must examine you.
GALAHAD: There’s nothing wrong with that!
PIGLET: Please — we are doctors.
GALAHAD: Get off the bed! I am sworn to chastity!
PIGLET: Back to your bed!
GALAHAD: Torment me no longer! I have seen the Grail!
PIGLET: There’s no grail here.
GALAHAD: I have seen it, I have seen it. I have seen–
GIRLS: Hello.
GALAHAD: Oh–
VARIOUS GIRLS: Hello.
GALAHAD: Zoot!
DINGO: No, I am Zoot’s identical twin sister, Dingo.
GALAHAD: Oh, well, excuse me, I–
DINGO: Where are you going?
GALAHAD: I seek the Grail! I have seen it, here in this castle!
DINGO: No! Oh, no! Bad, bad Zoot!
GALAHAD: What is it?
DINGO: Oh, wicked, bad, naughty Zoot! She has been setting alight
to our beacon, which, I just remembered, is grail-shaped. It’s not the
first time we’ve had this problem.
GALAHAD: It’s not the real Grail?
DINGO: Oh, wicked, bad, naughty, evil Zoot! Oh, she is a naughty
person, and she must pay the penalty — and here in Castle Anthrax, we
have but one punishment for setting alight the grail-shaped beacon. You
must tie her down on a bed and spank her!
GIRLS: A spanking! A spanking!
DINGO: You must spank her well. And after you have spanked her, you
may deal with her as you like. And then, spank me.
VARIOUS GIRLS: And spank me.
And me.
And me.
DINGO: Yes, yes, you must give us all a good spanking!
GIRLS: A spanking! A spanking!
DINGO: And after the spanking, the oral sex.
GIRLS: Oral sex! Oral sex!
GALAHAD: Well, I could stay a BIT longer.
LAUNCELOT: Sir Galahad!
GALAHAD: Oh, hello.
LAUNCELOT: Quick!
GALAHAD: What?
LAUNCELOT: Quick!
GALAHAD: Why?
LAUNCELOT: You’re in great peril!
LAUNCELOT: Silence, foul temptress!
GALAHAD: Now look, it’s not important.
LAUNCELOT: Quick! Come on and we’ll cover your escape!
GALAHAD: Look, I’m fine!
LAUNCELOT: Come on!
GALAHAD: Now look, I can tackle this lot single-handed!
DINGO: Yes! Let him tackle us single-handed!
GIRLS: Yes! Tackle us single-handed!
LAUNCELOT: No, Sir Galahad, come on!
GALAHAD: No, really, honestly, I can go back and handle this lot easily!
DINGO: Oh, yes, he can handle us easily.
GIRLS: Yes, yes!
GALAHAD: Wait! I can defeat them! There’s only a hundred and fifty
of them!
DINGO: Yes, yes, he’ll beat us easily, we haven’t a chance.
GIRLS: Yes, yes.
[boom]
DINGO: Oh, shit.
[outside]
LAUNCELOT: We were in the nick of time, you were in great peril.
GALAHAD: I don’t think I was.
LAUNCELOT: Yes you were, you were in terrible peril.
GALAHAD: Look, let me go back in there and face the peril.
LAUNCELOT: No, it’s too perilous.
GALAHAD: Look, I’m a knight, I’m supposed to get as much peril as I can.
LAUNCELOT: No, we’ve got to find the Holy Grail. Come on!
GALAHAD: Well, let me have just a little bit of peril?
LAUNCELOT: No, it’s unhealthy.
GALAHAD: Bet you’re gay!
LAUNCELOT: No, I’m not.
I’m thinking the hottitude alone will elicit several proposals of marriage. And a Harvard girl at that. Some nice Harvard boy will have that action locked up before she graduates.
I feel sorry for girls in the “hook-up” culture. I don’t think that’s really what most girls are looking for.
Dammint! She sold me until I saw this and realized it conflicted with my other lifestyle choice: Abstinence From the Gym. Gotta go, off to…well, you know.
I will, with difficulty, concede for the sake of argument that perhaps Janie Fredell can “manage” her sexual urges by going on a long run. Does it really not occur to her that it might be more difficult than that for some people?
I’m also truly puzzled by her reaction to even the bringing up of the topic of masturbation. Isn’t that the perfect solution to dealing with one’s desires without the ill effects of ill-considered sex? Hard to believe she’s “not trying to promote this idea of the meek little virgin female” here.
That was a weird ass article. Setting up the conflict between her and the horny co-president was really weird. And I would describe her as rather emotionally disconnected. But the worst part was the end, where the final premise was something like — more people are attracted to abstinent girls. After all, isn’t that what it’s really all about?
Off Topic (and quite a topic he given us today)
My grandson wanted to go to a movie, partly because he gets his own bag of Reece’s Pieces. I said, “Horton Hires a Ho” is playing. He said that is fine, and the day was complete. This morning the Kindergarten teacher asked the class if any one had been to the movies over the weekend. I could be in trouble.
The Ivy League is ovverrated for so many reasons…
Her boyfriend wouldn’t pop a boner all the time if he jerked off once in a while. That’s just not normal.
Maybe Ms. Fredell could learn a thing or two from these highly successful women … be prepared for snorting, guffawing and lots of chortling.
http://www.rightwingnews.com/m…..gers_o.php
Breathes there a college student whose soul is so dead that their lifestyle ISN’T attacked, at some point during their years on campus, in their college newspaper?
I don’t think so. Neither do I think that going for a nice long run does much to dampen sexual desire. Back when I ran three to seven miles, day in, day out, the only advantage I could see is that a long run made it easier to fall asleep.
I have slightly more sympathy for this girl–albeit because i refuse to read the actual article–the first few years at Harvard are really tough and they are tough on women who are high achievers in high school who find that, as usual, they are judged socially not on how well they do in their work lives but how effortlessly they get good grades and also appear “hot.” The problem for female students who are heterosexual is that it gives a huge amount of power to random guys around you who judge you, pressure you, and make you feel like a piece of meat when you really want to go to class, learn some shit, and do well while also having some fun. There just isn’t an easy way around the social and psychological dilemma of entering the dating scene/freedom from parental controls and also entering a high pressure work environment. I think the quotes from the other “abstinent” guy about how he basically can’t look at linoleum without thinking about sex are a scream. As are the comments even from my beloved tbogg and other commenters. Yes, there are lots of people who don’t walk down the street and look at other people and say “I’d like to have some of that” and it can be highly annoying to have your body and your life constantly appraised for its sexual appeal (or lack of it) by complete strangers in the hot house atmosphere of a college dorm. I think the whole abstinent declaration thing is absurd and she and the others would be better off learning to masturbate etc… but its not that there isn’t a real problem, for some people, with the interleaving of social and work worlds at college. Hell, that’s why they used to be *single sex*.
aimai
I think what I reallymeant to say is that, actually, in real life (highschool and college) people have been declaring themselves in our out of the dating scene, in or out of the drug scene, nerds, cool kids, jocks whatever for centuries (in kid terms) because it can be wearing trying to be all things to all people. There’s really nothing new here. You get thrown into a new school and a new social setting and you struggle to find a modus vivendi in which people aren’t always asking you to do stuff you don’t want to do (smoke dope, play pickup basketball, have sex with the ugly guy down the hall) and eventually you sort of have to declare yourself in or out just to be left alone to do what you want to do. Sex is just one of those things. But it couldj ust as well be drugs, or sports, or dungeons and dragons.
aimai
only a woody allen script could portray the angst inherent in Fredell and her boyfriends “realtionship” … lol
virginity ..imo .. is highly over-rated
I don’t think that’s a pic of Janie Fredell. And there’s no fucking pics over at the TLR site. And their fucking links blow. She’s not gonna have a problem avoiding sex if only slobs like Jonah Goldberg hit on her.
I’ve always been under the impression that a professed fondness for Dungeons & Dragons was pretty much a statement of abstinence, desired or not.
Fredell’s picture can be found on the first page of the NYT article linked above.
If your educated friends, presumably those with good taste, won’t fuck you, the red flag of warning is raised for me. Would that such learning was both communal and forced.
tbogg,
true, dat.
aimai
Here’s an amusing vignette from Finnish composer Jean Sibelius’ life:
In the 1920s, an old countess complained to Sibelius, “Don’t you think, Professor, that modern youth is corrupt? They talk of nothing but jazz, first they dance and then… (her voice trails off). I have been chaste for close to 90 years and who thanks me for it?”
Replied Sibelius, “Well I don’t, that’s sure!”
Fredell has the dour countenance of a modern-day version of Jane Austen’s Mary Bennett. The facial expession speaks volumes about her self-image. Stern, wide-eyed, not even a hint of a smile.
I find it’s the facial expression that has the most to do with whether I find someone appealing. That woman looks like she needs someone to show her how to have fun – not in the snarky, double-entendre sense, but in the “let the inner child out for a ride on the merry-go-round” sense.
Come to think of it, a lot of conservatives look like that.
Tbogg and I had a lengthy discussion around this article last night and while my first response was, “what a dimwit”…I have now moved on to “how sad.” As the mother of a college freshman, it is terrifying to send your beautiful daughter off to that big college world of books, studying, soccer, parties, booze, drugs and potentially unprotected sex. In our small corner of the world the discussions about the latter began early and were pretty much in the vein of “Boys are stupid, they think with the wrong head and if they say I Love You….run away screaming.” And, “Use condoms.” Slight oversimplification, but the underlying message to the L&T Casey was that SHE had all the control. And that control came from saying “NO” when she meant it, but also as much from eventually saying “YES” when it was the right time, the right place and especially, the right guy. Poor Janie is missing so much of what is infinitely powerful about being a woman….being able to say “YES” for whatever reasons WE want. And, if as women we could get past mixing up sex and love (hence the group’s name, True Love Revolution) Janie and others “choosing abstinence” might not think that the only way to be in control of their sexuality is to always mark the “NO” box. I can only hope she finds a wiser person to enlighten her….or just a really hot guy to show her the ropes.
TBogg, hilarious post.
Mrs. Bogg, your daughter is going to be just fine.
I’m with you. Poor thing, that Janie.
As for the love of her life, I have to think it sure is a good thing he’s whacking. Compulsively.
I don’t want anyone around me that preoccupied, not at that age. The young man has concisely captured the essence of “bomb waiting to go off.”
I’m sorry. The author has captured the essence of a ticking bomb.
I won’t paint poor young Leo with any brushes, not knowing him. And he seems pretty normal to me for his age.
Or so I have read.
she doesn’t look like a very happy girl in the pic at the Times. Wonder why that is?
Wow, all I can say is TBogg is a lucky, lucky man.
Yeah, I agree with puravida. I’ve always admired the tboggs and the beauteous casey and figured that I’d just follow their lead with my own two girls. And, needless to say, anytime the tbogg’s want a flop in cambridge they should stop over. I’d be honored to have them to stay, take them to dinner, and get some parenting tips from them.
aimai
You are all too kind….I’m blushing.