Ya know, Talkleft increasingly reads like it was written by Miss Teen South Carolina, except they don’t even know what an electoral map looks like, and all we need to do is edumacate them for the Eye-rack and Asia and then they’ll have maps and will finally be able to find their respective way to we-backed-the-wrong-fucking-candidate town.

Personally I believe that, by placing Hillary Clinton on the ticket, the party would be opening themselves up to four years of TV gasbags and bobbleheads going Full Metal Heathers

Indeed. The so-called “Unity Ticket” is a ticket to oblivion, and the only people for whom it’s the Dream Team are the traditional media, because it fits their predefined narrative. With Hillary out of the campaign picture they’d have to do actual work…

“Creative Class” is a phrase that’s been floating around the hardline Hillary blogs for a while now. It’s a really strange insult, which is pretty much par for the course at this point. Some of these sites (*cough*Corrente*cough*) are sinking to Baghdad Bob levels of delusion.

Bill will never let Obama be #1. With Hillary on the ticket Bill has his opening to once again be in the White House and Obama will not have a chance. Bill will be front and center with Hillary by his side. Poor Obama trailing behind. Do not put Hillary on the ticket as V.P.

47% of Clinton supporters is not crushing evidence.

It is dishonest to use “creative class” as if it was ever meant to encompass all creative people or all white Obama supporters. The word “class” is a hint that it refers to people who make a living off creativity. This bugs me greatly. And, when Bowers made this observation on MyDD last year, he was self-aware enough not to support Obama based on it! He was loyal to Edwards for Edwards’s whole campaign.

I think its just a substitute for “chattering class” with the same implication of airy fairy uselessness.

aimai

I think “Creative Class” refers to gays and gay-lovers. You know, interior decorators, dancers, actors, novelists, cooks, all those fancy kinds of things that don’t include shooting things (or people) or belching for entertainment.

Because, of course, all of us who are not hoping that Hillary can torpedo Obama’s chances, are just not real folks.

I have Tbogg’s Creative Class on my schedule for this autumn.

“Personally I believe that, by placing Hillary Clinton on the ticket, the party would be opening themselves up to four years of TV gasbags and bobbleheads going Full Metal Heathers and nattering on about the Hillary/Barack “relationship”, as if they were Jennifer Anniston and Brad Pitt, further lowering our already stupid political discourse. We cannot have that.”

Well sure, there ya go. Let’s pick the Dem. ticket so that we don’t offend MoDo, Chris Matthews, etc. God forbid - put Hillary on the ticket and they might be assholes, which, of course, they wouldn’t normally be.

But here’s the thing, they will be dicks no matter who is on the ticket. You may “personally” not want Hillary on the ticket for a whole multitude of valid reasons, Tbogg, but getting your panties in a twist about the “TV gasbags and bobbleheads” and worrying about what they say shouldn’t be one of them. This is why Democrats haven’t re-elected a president since FDR - the delicate fainting flowers in the party who don’t want to cause trouble.

(Oh wait, the Dems did re-elect a Pres. after FDR, but he is apparently a racist so it doesn’t count.)

“Full Metal Heathers” quick, Tom trademark that… it’s a TBOGG original hoot!

Maybe Barry Bonds could join the Clinton campaign to give it that working black man feel … Considering Hillary is now a whiskey swilling beer drinking coal miner whose veracity is tested every time she opens her fucking mouth, he’d fit right in.

Bonds charged with 14 counts of lying, obstruction

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....2?MSNHPHMA

You may “personally” not want Hillary on the ticket for a whole multitude of valid reasons, Tbogg, but getting your panties in a twist about the “TV gasbags and bobbleheads” and worrying about what they say shouldn’t be one of them.

This is Hillary Clinton we’re talking about. She’d show up for the first day of work as VP, dragging a load of baggage that would rival Madonna on tour. Feh…. no thanks. No more Clintons, no more Bushes. A Kathleen Sebelius would be just fine by me, with the added bonus that Tweety and the Boyz would have to stay up late rewriting their “narratives”.

Face it: we’re living Howard Beale’s nightmare. We have to pay attention to the gasbags and bobbleheads. It sucks but it’s true.

I hear Obama’s gonna pick Jeremiah Wright for his veep. Pass it on.

I’m not all that creative. Clinton voted for the war. It’s really as simple as that. I don’t want her as President, Vice President, or Ayatollah. I wouldn’t want her washing my car. That will never change. She decided that a vote to kill hundreds of thousands of people would help her presidential aspirations. She was wrong, thank God. Rot in hell, Hillary.

Uh, if we’re the “creative class” that makes them the “destructive class”. I’ll wear my badge with pride while they consider what exactly they and their candidate are contributing to the world… Their candidate’s scorched earth campaign tactics makes me want to create entirely new four letter words — and use them liberally.

Hey, that bastard’s using my macrame owl without permission! Well, okay, no, I’m reasonably sure no one’s ever taken a picture of it, but that first one looks *very* familiar.

What smilingdog said. She voted for the war. That’s disqualifying. It’s the defining issue of the day. She got it wrong. You don’t get mulligans on decisions that important. Pass.

She voted for the war. She hasn’t apologised.

But my objection to the ‘dream ticket’ is basically strategic. Obama’s big theme is about getting past everything that happened in politics since the mid-80s. His election map is going to be very different from Clinton’s: it’s an accident of of the primary calendar that the narrative is centred on Appalachia right now. You can’t have three people on a two-person ticket. And so on.

Omg, I can’t imagine a worse move than putting Hill & Bill on the ticket. First of all, Hillary’s “working-class” voters are not going to vote for the black guy just because she’s hangin’ with him.

Secondly, like President Obama won’t have enough to do cleaning up after Bush/Cheney and the whole damn rethug party… he’s suppose to saddle himself with Hill & Bill making mischief behind his back?

Worst idea ever.

Some absolutely brilliant and intelligent person said:

“This is Hillary Clinton we’re talking about. She’d show up for the first day of work as VP, dragging a load of baggage that would rival Madonna on tour. Feh…. no thanks. No more Clintons, no more Bushes”

listen up… you wait until the media is done with B. (Saddam) HUSSEIN fucking MUSLIM (Osama Bin Ladin) Obama by this fall.

He’ll have baggage up to his fucking ears.

I’m fine with no more Clintons, Bushes or any of the fuckers who run this country… including Obama. I hate every mother fucking one of em…

They’re all elites and that’s how country’s get run, by elites you dumb asses. And the elites all pretend to be jus’ honest country folk to get elected? And you’re annoyed by that? Guh… let me vomit in your presence from the sheer stupidity you’ve just displayed.

Jeebus… you think Obama’s gonna get a pass? You think he’s not gonna have baggage and plus by the tons before the media is done with him?

Think again.

I’ve figured out that Tbogg ain’t so happy with Mrs. Hitlery Klintoon and that’s all fine. She’s pissed me off plenty of times before too. But any of you who think things will be different when your lord and savior Mr. His Heavenly Presence Obama is running for P Resident then check your brains becuz the Republicans have mind fucked you again.

The media will make Obama look like the Manchurian candidate by next fall. And you’re a fool who hasn’t been paying attention if you don’t know that.

God people are stupid.

I realize that you came here with rant in hand, ready to take on the Obamaniacs. But reading the comments, all I see are people who realize that it isn’t going to happen for Hillary and taht she’s just wasting people’s time and money that could be better used going after John McCain.

Oh, and decaf is your friend.

First off, assigning my rage to drug use? Oldest canard in the book. Work harder to come up with something better next time ok?

Next up.

You missed the point Tbogg.

You see, there are people who support Obama who think that he won’t have the “baggage” that Hitlery Klintoon carries.

I tried, every so kindly and gently (ok, not so much) to remonstrate them and point out their error.

Apparently I’ve failed, yet again.

Sigh.

Hey, you’re a funny guy though and I enjoy your blog. Keep up the good work. We’ll need every bit of humor we can find over the next 4 years.

When McCain is president in January, and has to start up the draft because he’s gotten us in yet another war? I’ve got three boys all draft age. It’s quite the happy circumstance for you that your lovely and talented Casey isn’t required to sign up for the draft. Lucky you.

Tbogg,

I was surprised that you would stoop to an accusation of caffeine use myself. I mean, how nasty. See, it’s not caffeine, it’s just that the NakedMan running around screaming about how everyone else is stupid is just smarter than the rest of us. In addition to that, he has three adult sons and therefore has it worse than the rest of us and speaks with far more authority than any of us could conjure. I for one will sit in quiet reverence as I deploy an umbrella to avoid the spittle.

So your solution is what, suicide? Yes, they’re all assholes. Yes, they will all fuck up. No candidate is immune from fuck-up-edness regardless of party. I don’t expect Obama to save us, just as I wouldn’t expect Clinton, assuming she had a chance in hell, to save us. I do kind of expect McCain to blow the fucking place up, and I’ll vote for anyone who might be less inclined to do that, Obama appears to fit the bill though I’m not holding my breath. I also personally and cynically and depressedly suspect that McCain will win, that racists and morons and plutocrats will conspire to get him in the White House no matter what, beyond that I even sort of suspect no conspiring will be necessary. You cannot outdo me in low expectations of our countrymen, believe me. But until McCain-assisted Armageddon looks like an inevitability rather than, you know, just an overwhelming probability, I’m going to tilt at a few windmills and put off the cyanide a little longer, okay? Meanwhile, I’ll probably hate the system and the players a lot, and curse the various idiotic things they do in the process of getting us to Bush III: This Time It’s McCain! I don’t expect it to help any, but I don’t expect calling everybody around me stupid and telling them we’re all doomed is going to help much, either. Everything’s fucked, it shows every sign of getting worse, and unless you have an actual solution, I suggest you go find a streetcorner for your The End Is Near sandwich board, ’cause doing it here just gets people annoyed at you for mistaking them for Pollyannas (I can only assume this bizarre misapprehension was caused by poor lighting and the general gloom in the comment section).

And yes, you display every sign of having come here, as our host notes, with rant in hand. Just had to get it out of your system? Dandy. You’ve now done so. You may now go spread the Gospel of We’re All Fucked elsewhere.

Was it my “more baggage than Madonna on tour” comment that set NakedMan off? Jeez, sorry. I almost went with Diana Ross, and even considered Elvis.

Never fuck with people’s music; that’s the lesson I’ll take away from this one.

So did this little speech interrupt your erecting barracades in the streets or dynamiting a bridge, or what. Anyway, your eloquence convinced me and I’m much smarter now. What is it you want us to do?

Anyway, your eloquence convinced me and I’m much smarter now. What is it you want us to do?

Ah, yes. Now, see, that’s what I was trying for. Thank you, Crosstimbers.

Smilingdog, it’s barely possible that she and a whole lot of other Dems voted for Bush’s profoundly immoral invasion of Iraq based on incomplete and otherwise gamed ‘intelligence,’ though I beg leave to doubt it.

Clinton also voted against the amendment that would’ve banned cluster bombs, and that time she knew exactly what that vote meant. What kind of sociopath votes for cluster bombs? That was the day she irrevocably lost my support.

Nah, the oldest reply in the book is that your a whiny ass titty baby. That would have been my first go.

Along with dsidhe and crosstimbers I’m still waiting with bated breath to find out what exactly Mr. NakedMan would like us all to do now or in November…

Oh, and caffeine *is* my friend; but if Hillary doesn’t bug off real soon I’m going to start snorting it straight from the package to keep the depression and migraines at bay.

He wants us to vote for his bestest friend evah- Ron Paul!
He’s a rethug troll that needs to be mocked into hiding.

Oh wait, the Dems did re-elect a Pres. after FDR, but he is apparently a racist so it doesn’t count.

Oh wait, the Dems did re-elect a Pres. after FDR, but he is apparently a racist conservative so it doesn’t count.
fixed.

In the words of Al Franken, “Bill Clinton was a great republican president.”

One really needs to establish their comic bona fides before being allowed to use the term “Hitlery Klintoon” (even if it is one of my favorites). I myself, I’m not allowed to use it or “Barack Saddam Hussein Obama bin Laden” (also alluded to).

Well, the really great thing about Hillary’s baggage narrative (full-tilt bull-dyke-lesbian kills lover Vince Foster in jealous rage) is that we all have it so well memorized. We can sing along with Tweety. But it’s also the worst thing about Hillary’s baggage. Re-runs all the time.

The really great thing about Barack’s baggage narrative is that it’s still being concocted/discovered/emptied out of the suitcase. I’ve seen some preliminary narratives: Obama is really a Muslim whose wife is an atheist (yes, Muslim men are cool with that) and whose (former) long-time spiritual advisor is an outspoken Christian pastor who baptized Obama’s daughters. Oh, and Rezko paid off the Obamas’ student loans.

And I’ve seen some great baggage narratives for McCain, too, involving gooks and cunts and rampant promiscuity and bombing the USS Forrestal himself and getting Manchurianized while enjoying guest accommodations at the Hanoi Hilton. You can see how sometimes McCain’s baggage narrative gets mixed up with his established mythic narrative.

Of course, the less internal logic to these narratives, the better.

What, you thought we were going to get discussions about Kyl-Lieberman?

It’s a fine line between cynicism and nihilism, and it’s a brilliant mind that can rants about how bad things are without crossing it.

NakedMan is not that smart.

It’s true that from where I sit these candidates suck to varying degrees.

It just seems that this time we might have a candidate who sucks to a much less significant degree than the other two.

So I hope Obama can win the presidency. We won’t really know how much he sucks until then. I’m willing to risk it.

The line between cynicism and nihilism is hope.

Without it, you’re just a blithering idiot tilting at windmills.

Nothing wrong with tilting at windmills as long as that’s not all you’re doing. It beats all hell out of trying to persuade others the whole thing is useless so they might as well sit back and wait for President McCain to blow the place up.

And yeah, it’s a risk I’m willing to take, too. What’s the worst that could happen? Pretty much the same as what I *expect* to happen if we don’t get him elected. There’s no downside to this risk, it’s not like I’m gonna get any more cynical or pessimistic if he turns out to be a toad.

“Nah, the oldest reply in the book is that your a whiny ass titty baby.”

My, how original. I’m wounded. Seriously… cut to the core.

Some one else asked what we should do between now and November. The point of my “rant” was to try to make people aware of the fact that the republican attack machine will do the same thing to Obama that they’ve done to every democrat since Carter. It was a simple heads up for those in the Obama camp who seem to think that his message of change will actually translate into something tangible. It won’t.

To the guy who said this: “In addition to that, he has three adult sons and therefore has it worse than the rest of us and speaks with far more authority than any of us could conjure.”

You’re quite a piece. Do you have anyone close to that you think you could actually lose in a war if McCain is elected? If not, then yes, I do have more at stake than you.

So yeah, I’m afraid. I’m angry. I’m not quite so able to sit back with the dispassionate sophistication that you all display and be all reasonable and nice and pleasant and oh so humorously detached from it all. I’m not going to apologize and for all those who left nasty comments, well… peace back at ya I suppose. I wasn’t expecting to get a positive response from anyone anyway.

Be that as it may I’ll vote for any democrat on the ticket this fall. I suppose I didn’t quite make that clear. But if, or when, John McCain “wins” the election (the quotes are deliberate) I’ll stop by have some coffee with you and we’ll have a laugh.

Some one else asked what we should do between now and November. The point of my “rant” was to try to make people aware of the fact that the republican attack machine will do the same thing to Obama that they’ve done to every democrat since Carter. It was a simple heads up for those in the Obama camp who seem to think that his message of change will actually translate into something tangible. It won’t.

Fail. What you accomplished was to explain that we’re all madly in love with Obama and think the GOP will play fair. If you read much of this thread, you would have seen that this is not the case. Most of us expect that any democratic candidate will be slagged unreasonably by the GOP assholes. The question, in fact, for those who are even bothering to ask, is whether Obama will be slagged *less* than Clinton would be. Some think he will, others not so much. Me, I suspect they’ll go after whoever to any extent they can, but that American citizens might just possibly consider the rampant anti-Obama race-baiting unreasonable in a way that they might not the rampant misogyny of an anti-Clinton campaign. Pollyannas? Not so much. “Lord and savior Obama”? I dunno where you saw that attitude, ’cause I sure missed it.

So you come in here with your ass in the air to tell us all we’re morons. If a specific comment set you off, maybe you could have replied to that specific comment. Otherwise, you invite the generalized everyone who assumed you were speaking of them to tell you where you’re wrong. And to do so in a manner as hostile and snarky as you yourself pitched in.

You weren’t expecting a positive response? Well, I suppose that shows some self-awareness, anyway, since you sure as hell didn’t invite one. So, you know, not much sympathy that we hurt your feelings by not understanding what you were trying to get at. If you don’t start off by telling the room they’re all fucking morons and we’re all fucked and there’s nothing anyone can do about it, you’re less likely to get mocked as a smug jackass.

The media will make Obama look like the Manchurian candidate by next fall.

Enough to over-come a quarter billion dollar Obama media blitz?

While running against a guy who can’t restrain himself from badgering a 14 year old girl over her t-shirt?

Not this time, bitch.

Jeralyn Merritt almost makes Ann Althouse look sane and reasonable.

Reading her crazy nonsense is a high-light of my day.

TalkLeft now has a certain Ellen James Society quality about it.

someone says:

“fail”

ZOMG… LOL…. uh.. wut other stupid internets responz can I come up with?

I love it when kids these days say “fail”… they’re so sweet and funny. I just wanna hit them in the face and break their goddamn jaw.

Hey, let me ask “u” something. You ever seen you childood friend come home dead in a box from a war?

My cousin Mark Rose got shot down in a helicopter over the Mekong Delta in 1978. He lived. But then the agent orange got him and he died a few years later of brain cancer. Oh well… “fail”! He was totally fucking fail!!!!!

I have nightmares where I see one of my son’s faces in that coffin. I know its just a joke or something to make fun of. Go ahead, make fun of me… see if I goddamn fucking care. I mean hey, screw me, I have “three adult sons” lol… zomg… fucking it’s so god damn funny they’re signing up for the draft. LOL.. ZOMG… FUCKING FAIL…

Just… fucking whatever.

Yeah, not this time bitch…

You’re so cool…

Very fucking cool. Not this time bitch? Ok.

“So, you know, not much sympathy that we hurt your feelings”

In your fucking dreams you hurt my feelings.

see, people are goddamn stupid.

so… excuse me.

My wife tells me I’ve been harsh, mean, stupid and useless.

We have discussed this and I’ve been forced ( once again ) to admit she’s right.

I apologize to everyone I’ve been harsh, mean, stupid and/or useless to.

I also apologize to Tbogg for using up his forum space.

Let’s all just make sure St. John McBBQ doesn’t win this fall.

Um.. Tom, eh… I’m sorry man. Just, I have a bunch of feelings all caught up in this and it’s not really a Hillary vs. Obama thing, it’s seeing the democrats tear themselves up again. The frustration bubbles over.

:^(

“I just wanna hit them in the face and break their goddamn jaw.”

OK, I apologize specifically to “dsidhe” for making this comment.

Sorry…

Ehh, you might as well calm down NakedMan, because you can’t win with the Obama fans, who seem to think that if you perhaps prefer another Dem candidate in the primary - ugh, that warmongering biotch, Hillary - then you are a racist, simpleminded, rightwing freak.
My original comment in this thread concerned - gasp - Tbogg’s actual post!! (which everyone seemed to have forgotten in all the mishegoss) when he said we can’t nominate Hillary because the press hates her so much: “Personally I believe that, by placing Hillary Clinton on the ticket, the party would be opening themselves up to four years of TV gasbags and bobbleheads going Full Metal Heathers and nattering on about the Hillary/Barack “relationship”, as if they were Jennifer Anniston and Brad Pitt, further lowering our already stupid political discourse.”
Yeah, good, let’s have Dowd and Matthews, etc. control who is nominated.
Again, there are plenty of valid reasons for you not to be for Hillary, and I will happily, gladly, joyfully!! pull the level for Barack come November… but why make the media’s approval a selling point for a candidate?
And yes, you Obamatards, I understand the media is a factor - but why should we let them control anything? They also whined that Al Gore should concede Florida three goddamn hours after the polls closed on election night in 2000. And that worked out well, huh? Vote Democrat come November - but don’t let the fucking media be the deciding factor.
Seems like Tbogg’s balls went away with Beckham’s!
(Haha, that’s for the freak who mocked me in another post for daring to — oooh — disagree with Tbogg. How dare I do that!)
Asswipe, I’ve been on the Tbogg site for a while - before I had to re-register with another name when he went over to firedoglake, and still don’t understand why the re-registration required a new name!

NakedMan;

Uh, what counts as close. My stepson(18 yrs. old)? My son(11)? The kid I watched grow up who hung around with my stepson since 5th Grade and basically grew up in my house? He is being deployed with the NJ National Guard in the next month or two. Does he count? If not, I guess you got me beat 3 to 2 or maybe I only get credit for one, since my son is still very young. I’ll tell you what, you keep score, because my entire point was that none of that gives anyone else more or less moral authority to take any position. Too much nuance for you I guess. I am just happy you didn’t want more wars with those sons, because what could we say against a guy willing to sacrifice his own. Why, it brings a patriotic tear to my eye just thinking about it.

OK, after slinking away in shame for a day or two because of my earlier intemperate comments…

I don’t know what to say TomMil… I’m angry. I’m afraid for my sons. That makes me angry. Because fear breeds anger. I had to talk to a close friend about this to figure it all out. I’m afraid, that makes me angry and I said some intemperate and not well thought out things.

I apologize to you.

Yes, I’m afraid for my sons. I get this sick feeling that if McCain is elected he’ll start another stupid war and things will get out of control and next thing I know my sons are off fighting a dumb ass war and in danger for no good reason. And having seen dead people come home from war in the past I have all sorts of inner, unspeakable fears. Don’t know what to say to you about that. But did I mention I’m angry and possibly unreasonable?

Can we just agree to not let this shit happen?

Best wishes to you.