I’ve mentioned before that I don’t really like to attend "progressive events" because really nice people suffering from advanced stages of extreme sincerity make me itchy. I think it’s great that people with dreams and ideals think that if they if could only get the opposition to sit down and listen to their heartfelt arguments they could win them over. I think they also spend a lot of time being horribly disappointed.
First of all you have to decide if you really want to win. If you just want to spend your time debating hypotheticals and dreaming of how swell things could be while weaving yourself a safety net of emergency qualifiers in case things don’t go the way you planned, go get a job at the fucking Brookings Institution. But if you’re gonna go to ideological war, then go to ideological war. And if you are going to fight this war you have to ask yourself "what would Dick Cheney do?"
Never apologize.
Never admit weakness.
Never concede points.
Never defend.
Always attack.
You have to remember that, in the case of the Glenn Beck conservative wing (a group of people who make the Dittoheads look like Quakers), you are dealing with a crazy salad of stupid people (and let’s quit excusing them as "low information voters"…they’re dumbshits), lunatics, assholes, racists, political performance artists, opportunists, and the kind of people who make eugenics seem desirable if not downright necessary.
These are not the people you need or want. You want the mushy middle and the mushy middle loves people who project strength and power. It makes them feel safe. They like being on the winning team. Power and winning intoxicates them. If they write for the Politico, it gives them boners and they’ll write anything you want them to. But these people do not respond in the quite the same way to squishy papering over of defeat. For example:
Lame.
Instead of pointing out that Jones is out because of a concerted mob effort against anything the Obama administration wants to do, led by a man with a history of drug, alcohol and psychological problems who is being abetted by ‘conventional wisdom’ insiders (we’re talking to you Stephanopoulos, you midget fuck) who pretend to understand the pulse of America from inside their highly paid media bubble, Gibbs gives the kind of lame "the President appreciates his service… now let’s move on" soundbite that could have just as easily come from Scott McClellan when ass-raping Dr. David Hager stepped down from the FDA.
But, no. Gibbs punted.
This isn’t just about Van Jones. It’s about Obama and it’s about leading. Again with Stephanopoulos and Gibbs:
I had a pretty spirited go around with White House Press Secretary Roberts Gibbs and the latest on this dilemma over the public option. The bottom line: Gibbs says the President will make the case for a public option in his speech to Congress on Wednesday but he won’t issue a veto threat if it isn’t in the final package.
[...]
STEPHANOPOULOS: "[Obama] wants a public option, but… "
GIBBS: "And he still does."
STEPHANOPOULOS: "But — he wants it, but will he sign a bill that doesn’t include it? Because it can’t get through the Senate."
GIBBS: "Well, we’re not going to prejudge what the process will be when we sign a bill, which the president expects to do this year. The president strongly believes that we have to have an option like this to provide choice and competition, to provide a check on insurance companies, because without it, again, we’re going to have markets as big as a whole state of Alabama, almost 90 percent of which is dominated by one insurance company."
STEPHANOPOULOS: "The president, from what I can hear, is going to make the case for the public health-insurance option — for a form of the public health-insurance option — on Wednesday, but he is not going to say: If you don’t bring me one, I veto the bill."
GIBBS: "I doubt we’re going to get into heavy veto threats on Wednesday. We’re going to talk about what we can do, because we’re so close to getting it done. He will talk about the public option, and why he believes, and continues to believe, that it is a valuable component of providing choice and competition, that helps individuals and small business, at the same time provides a check on insurance companies, so they don’t dominate the market."
This is all fine and good if you’re putting up a public front like you give a shit what the other side thinks but, based on what I’ve seen so far, there is little indication that Obama is willing to risk even the slightest legislative defeat in defense of anyone who isn’t a friend of Tim Geithner or Larry Summers. I’ve negotiated deals big and small for years and I know that, if you can’t or are unwilling to say "Fuck you. No." and then walk away, you’re already losing before you even sit down at the table. Instead what you’re saying is "Make me an offer. There’s a good chance I’ll be your bitch."
With solid majorities now, and God knows what will happen in 2010, the clock is ticking on Barack Obama to take charge of what once promised to be the defining issue of his administration. Back In January Obama told Republican leaders "I won."
It’s time to fucking start acting like it.





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Yup.
Well said.
The “WWDD?” school of action (What Would Dick Do?), is one to consider, just leave out the actual killing and torturing and shooting in the face stuff. Otherwise, a good plan.
yea, but isn’t it also possible that Obama is not capable of what we want? Isn’t it possible that no-one in the White House could?
What is more effective, cursing people or organizing an alternative?
We can do both – cursing just helps relieve the anger, and it’s healthier than a fifth of Jack on the rocks.
I am just baffled by Obama and his team’s daintiness the last 8 months. It’s like he wants to play football, got a big contract to play football but doesn’t want to hit anyone. Politics these days isn’t cordial conversation with both parties being reasonable. It’s rank partisan, nasty, hand to hand combat. If Obama doesn’t want to get in the mud and fight then he better outsmart the opposition but he isn’t even doing that.
I know there has been a lot of complaining about Rahm but wtf is up with Valerie Jarrett? Obama supposedly consults her about everything. She ain’t no Dem Karl Rove that’s for sure.
Dick Cheney and his crew would start calling them all out as traitors 24/7. Not such a bad idea, as it happens to be true, for a change.
I like asking people down here in christianist texas, “do you think jesus would favor a public option?”
of course, they hate me for that.
Bravissimo! From your lips to Obama’s ears.
They’re gonna hate you anyway, so might as well give them a concrete reason.
Heh. I posted a little sign with a cephalopodic silhouette and the caption, “WWCD: What would Cthulhu do?” on my office door. I think we could use a bit more of that in the Democratic Party.
We really do live in interesting times. It seems Barack Obama is just going to wander us down a lane of lameness, until…I dunno, that’s what’s interesting about these times.
I think we’re about to see, over the next couple months, the most stunning abandonment of power, and fuck-up in the usage thereof, that America has ever witnessed.
This guy simply does not understand contemporary America, and he knows nothing about fighting.
He has almost completely lost me; Wednesday’s speech is likely to finish me off, especially since he seems to think such a speech is going to turn his ship around.
Unless some great societal tragedy comes Obama’s way, providing an opportunity to show some balls, we are probably in for 3 years of lame duck status, with the Democratic Party frozen thereby, so, Hello, President Pawlenty! Gosh, you seem like a nice man!
You’re about where I am these days, as I’ve been writing tirelessly about on my blog. (forgive the whoring; I can’t help it…) When Republicans “win,” no matter how spuriously, they get a pair of hookers and a sports car. When we win, we get a savings bond. That’s just the way it is.
cocktailhag.com/blog
If I may put it a little more delicately…grow some balls, bash some heads and get on with it.
Yes, this is exactly the sentiment that dominated most of the popular Liberal blogs during the election. When will Obama learn?!?! He would be President or something by now if he would just listen!
Oh, wait.
Curse people and organize an alternative. People need to be chewed out. People need to be thrown down with. It’s high time progressives re-learned the fine art of fighting, because, let’s face it, for eight years we could do nothing but decry and declaim. It’s now time to take the initiative.
It is fight time, and I couldn’t be happier!
Obama won because everyone hated Bush and because Obama was a good speaker. You don’t have to attack something when it’s so obviously bad that pointing out its flaws would be like beating a dead horse with a sledgehammer.
A beautiful, beautiful sentiment.
Oh, tbogg, you idealistic dreamer, you.
If only you could get the Obama White House to sit down and listen to your heartfelt arguments, I’m sure you could win them over.
This is a longstanding problem with Democrats. Remember when John Kerry thought he could just ignore the Swiftboaters?
What Would Dick Cheney Do? Hell, that’s Standard Republican Procedure.
When they got their butts kicked in 1998 by a pissed-off public warning them to stop it with the impeachment crap against Bill Clinton (a warning which featured kicking the Senate’s two most vocal impeachment advocates — D’Amato and Faircloth — out of office), what did they do? They chose Newt Gingrich — who of all the GOP leadership was the least involved with the impeachment mess — to be the scapegoat for the party’s midterm losses, and kicked him out so he could go make ten times as much dough as a lobbyist. Then, they went ahead with a lame-duck Congressional impeachment anyway.
Yes. I also remember the Gore campaign, the Dukakis campaign, the Mondale campaign, the Carter campaigns, the McGovern campaign, . . .
(I must have left my snark tag off. My apologies.)
Kerry ignored the Swiftboaters as George Stephanopolis informed us that Kerry The Frenchman ordered Swiss Cheese on his Philly Cheese Steak and fretted over spilling anything on his french cut dress shirt.
Meanwhile Dubya ordered his wit wiz.
He’s capable. He doesn’t want to cross his corporate masters. I have given up on Obama. The fucker actually had the balls to go out golfing with UBS’ CEO when he went to Martha’s Vineyard. The same UBS who was busy instructing their clients on how to illegally get out of paying taxes. The same UBS who is working on a deal with the DOJ/Treasury on this right now. The fucker meets with Billy Bob Tauzin in the WH several times. Finds time to meet with all kinds of lobbyists for Insurance cos, Big Pharma and Big Medicine. Then he has the balls to ask the Progressive Caucus who much they are willing to concede on the Public Option? Excuse me, mofo the public option was the fucking compromise. I hope Rahm Emanuel is good at teaching Obama to give the bluedogs BJs like he does, because Obama’s going to be giving them a lot of BJs to get their asses working out there for him in 2012 to get him reelected because his base ain’t going to do it for him.
What’s interesting in this coverage of the affair by The Guardian is the emphasis given to Jones’ signing a 2004 letter/petition which suggested that Bush had foreknowledge of 9/11: http://www.guardian.co.uk/worl…..epublicans
Oh, thanks for the reminders. Peterr! It’s a holiday w/e. Guess we’re all subs tonight.
In Response to TEBB:
I can tell you what Jesus thinks of the public option.In Mark He made himself clear.Mark 16:15-18. He didn’t tell them to go see Caesar. He expects us to do all we can first.Then Pray. The answer will come.
However today, in America, There are too many people who think its always somone elses job. Like they all have Union Jobs.What is needed in this country Is true leadership, not only with a vision, but action to back it up, AND Accountability. Obama will not accept accountability for what he proposes for two reasons, He will speak in generalizations for Probable deniability, and someone else is pulling his strings so he isn’t accountable. and the person pulling the strings won’t accept accountability either.
In the immortal words of Casey Stengel: “Can’t anybody here play this game?”
A-yup. This is what Democrats do — they either ignore the attacks and hope the media doesn’t join in with their Republican pals to amplify them, or they immediately try to cut their losses and cut loose whoever or whatever is the object of the hissy kabuki.
Republicans, instead — and usually with the media’s full cooperation — pretend nothing ever happened. (Even when it’s really blatant, they usually figure they’ll skate if only they can keep the press quiet. Look at how many months it took for Larry Craig’s airport-solicitation arrest to hit the news. If he’d been a Dem there would have been TV cameras filming him on his way out of the bathroom.)
Two of the best blog entries I have read in a long time, Jane’s and this one. They have distilled the reason for why we are where we are today.
Until we all “grow a pair” and start playing the political game the way it is played here in the 21st century we are going to continue to get our butts beat.
Robert Gibbs is just the mouthpiece for an administration that is gutless, spineless and smelly sacks of shit. Our majority will be gone by 2010, like it even matters. At least when the Dem’s are in the minority there is an excuse.
One would think that the Dem’s can remember what it was like in the minority when they weren’t allowed to propose any legislation or even any amendments. They were relegated to holding hearings in basement rooms and they had no power to do anything. Well, I hope they enjoy their short time in the minority because they are rapidly heading back to the basement.
We out here outside of the beltway have been waiting 8 years for the hated weasels to be gone and what do we get. A bunch of pussies that are afraid of their shadow. All I can say to the Dem’s is “Fuck you very much”.
PS Ever read or know John Shelby Spong?
The problem is that we aren’t Dick. We don’t believe in doing things the way he would do them. And it’s pretty clear what he’d do in this case. He’d basically declare martial law. He would tell the president he should rule by decree, and get Yoo to give him some type of flaky legal opinion legitimizing such an arrogation of power. He would force through sedition laws in Congress. He would cook up some type of national security warrant/gag order to force Rush and Beck off the air, and he’d have DHS agents in teflon securing Fox’s broadcast center. He’d have birther and deather members of Congress surveilled if not under house arrest. Heck, he’d probably come up with some means of arrogating the power to appoint new senators until he has the majority he needs to pass whatever it is he wants to pass. In other words, we wouldn’t want to do what he would do.
This being said, we’re on new ground here. Hordes of rethug orcs have crossed the rubicon and there is nothing in our polite political arsenal to fight them with. Remember, this type of thuggish demagoguery hasn’t been seen since the early Republic – since before the establishment of the current system of Federalism and the corresponding reduction in states rights that started to happen in the mid 1850s and continued on through the New Deal. Obama has failed to show leadership, yes, but admittedly we’re on new ground here. There might’ve been a moment during William Jennings Bryant’s time where leaders were under this kind of pressure, and that was a royal mess back then. Nobody, least of all Mr. Post-Partisan Gentleman, knows how to deal with the present impasse. I certainly don’t. Not without pushing this to the point that Cheney would’ve.
Right on brother!!!!!!!!
Bill Clinton for all his faults at least had the guts to occasionally say “Fuck you!” (figuratively) to political opponents and go full speed ahead, which was the only reason he managed to accomplish ANYTHING during his presidency. I have never seen any indication that Obama can do that. Of course he has pretty much told progressives to go fuck themselves but that doesn’t count.
BO offered tax cuts in the stimulus package in exchange for no republican votes. So this is his “fool me twice” moment. If he screws this up he’s done. Limbaugh will have won.
Arrgggh! This is so maddening and vexing.
There are People Who May Be Reasoned With, and then, Those Who Are Past Reasoning. You’ll find them mixed in a crowd and it’s very difficult to grab the Reasoners, and there really are some out there.
They are just fucked by their information sources. I sat next to a very conservative guy at DeGette’s townhall last Thursday, and he was very receptive to my arguments: He seemed to me representative of a lot of the conservative side there, who I’d say were about 1/3rd or so of the total group. He listened, he didn’t shout, he took notes, and he was very respectful with me where our ideology diverged, and I returned the courtesy.
Two things had never crossed his mind:
1. that the other Western Industrialized countries who all have some sort of universal coverage have lost less manufacturing jobs than we have, since that benefit is not part of the corporate payroll, and we should arm our companies similarly if we wish to be a net manufacturing exporter and
2. he didn’t know that the health insurers were exempt from anti-trust laws.
And in fact, I’m pretty sure he is the one that came away with a newer/updated viewpoint; and regardless of how incremental it was, it surely was a viewpoint that put him truly more to the center, than when he came in.
Why the above two ideas are not in the pitch from the Dems and dominating the news coverage mystifies me for the usual mundane and depressing reasons. Nonetheless, when a person of diverging ideology hears them, being honest with him/herself, finds that they are something to think about, rather than to shriek about.
Of course, Those Who Reject Reason are bonkers and on the course of Total Assholiness, and deserve to be mocked, beyond repair
That is what happens when you leave the people for the corporations. You lose your soul and your fire and become a golem.
That’s the Fucking point. We must push this to the point that Cheney would. Otherwise they will jus tcontinue to “scorch the earth” and burn us up with it. It is time to stop trying to be bipartisan. The opposition has no thoughts of being bipartisan. Remember. They want to make this Obama’s Waterloo. Well, we need to make this (I was going to say Hiroshima) Dresden and just firebomb the shit out of them!
My, what a selectively twisted vision of the Bible you have. Jesus never mentioned bootstraps once, as far as the four gospel writers tell us. In the parable of the good samaritan, the priest and the levite passed by on the other side, but the outsider samaritan is the one who was praised by Jesus. He showed mercy, while others did not.
If you’re going to pull out the Bible, how about Jesus’ words in Matthew 25 (paraphrased here): “When you did it to the least of these, my brothers and sisters, you did it to me. Or not, as the case may be.”
Should we put you down for “not”?
I’ve read his stuff, but never met him.
Those Who Reject Reason are bonkers and on the course of Total Assholiness, and deserve to be mocked, beyond repair
Of course that covers the vast majority of the Republican Party right now.
The majority of Dem and Republican pols would fail a high school civics class. Trouble is, being ignorant doesn’t hurt the Republicans because they can always get away with making shit up.
Hey, Rat! Right, you are. People can list Bill’s short comings, but, he was not a career opportunist.
(PS Apple Pie here for desert, if you want some.)
I just feel there hasn’t been enough hand ringing yet over on the Democratic side about what the Republicans might feel is acceptable . . .
Oh yay! Yes please! (holding out plate)
Hear, hear, tbogg. Obama needs to start stepping on necks – lots of them – and putting his weight into it.
Indeed. Those on the right have a dark and unholy scripture and have abandoned the words of the Rabbi Yeshua. He would have no trouble, nor does anyone who has read the Gospels. You shall tend to the sick, house the homeless, feed and cloth the poor, treat all around you as you would be treated, love them as you do yourself, and as you have done to the least among you, so have you done to me. While I left the church long ago, he is one of the reasons I am a socialist.
As I’ve said elsewhere, the only way anything ever gets done in a legislative body over the protests of the corporate interests who stand to gain if nothing is done is…someone has to stand up and say, “Hey!!! There’s a big damn stinky turd in the punchbowl right there. How come all of you are pretending like you can’t see it or smell it?”
That’s because the legislative dance is dependent upon both sides ignoring the central point in any controversial issue and instead bickering over things around the edges or totally unrelated. It gets them off the hook for being the bought-and-paid-for whores that they are. It’s a really transparent kabuki dance.
The good news is, it falls apart pretty quickly if someone stands up and just says what’s what. Example: I went up against an energy company lobbyist at our state legislature. After sitting through some of the most dishonest and shamefully false testimony I’ve ever heard in a committee meeting, when it was my turn to speak, in so many words I said, “hey guys, remember two years ago when that energy lobbyist was up here telling you all about the magical wonders of energy deregulation and how it was going to promote competition and result in a better deal for consumers? Well, correct me if I’m wrong but from what he just said he’s now claiming that what you did was create a deregulated monopoly for his company. Are you going to let him get away with punking you like that?”
It didn’t make me popular with the committee, and that lobbyist never spoke to me again (big loss there), but…WE WON. And that’s the ONLY way you ever win against these guys – by shoving their faces into that punchbowl to where the turd is right there in front of their noses. In this case, it’s pretty damn easy to do. A simple message to the effect that the current system of healthcare works really well for the X million of health insurance company stockholders and CEOs and doesn’t work for shit for anyone else, correlating how many people suffer lack of care or bankruptcy per each individual stockholder, and a simple declarative statement that anyone who claims that there is anything other than those shareholders standing in the way of reform is a liar should be enough to get the ball rolling. Let the congressional sell-outs spend their time pushing back against that idea rather than giving them a pass on what is the ONLY thing standing in the way of reform. Run ads, “representative X believes that the many must suffer so the few may prosper”. Hammer that shit home. It’s the turd in the punchbowl, and no way we should let them get away with pretending it’s not there.
Obama kisses Right and kicks Left, so if he starts stepping on necks it will be ours.
(What, he already did?)
Never mind.
Hey, I’m not shrieking for bi-partisanship, not in the least. What I am saying is that people are fucked over by info sources, including the conservative minded.
I made a damn convert in terms of the economic piece! The dude wasn’t a birther, but his first foray to me was “Do you want the government more in your life?” Typical “government is evil” Reaganite, but not an entire asshole.
It was worth it to be firm, yet polite with him, and I won the day; at least in the sense of “You haven’t thought this all the way through, dude.”
There are those people out there; earnest, yet misinformed. I feel really bad for them and totally PISSED OFF at the media for providing such fodder.
Yes! His book, “Here I Stand,” was a great inspiration to me. Thanks for bringing it up; I thought I was the only one.
[groan] So true. I can’t argue with you on that.
I just like agreeing with you, so I can get some of yer PIE! [hand some over please, demi!]
Was not even remotely criticizing you, sorry if it sounded that way. There are a few conservatives who can be reached, but far too many have been mainlining hate and fear for too long to reason any more. Most of those who can be reached are no longer identifying as Republican or only weakly so, having been scared off by the same forces that assail us..
I said this downstairs, but I feel moved to say it again. I love Radicals. The only way change will happen. Not tomorrow. But, it will. I hold hope in my heart.
Very sneaky pie ploy!
He really needs to learn that you gotta dance with them what brung you, as Molly Ivins said.
Most of us learned in grade school that reasoning with a bully never got them to stop stealing your lunch money. You got them to stop by kicking them in the nuts so hard that they went from singing baratone to castrato in one easy lesson. THEN you can “reason” with them. Makes you wonder if Obama went hungry a lot , because he damn sure never learned that simple truth.
Hey, I didn’t feel criticized by you in the least. Not a whit!
The thing is, it’s very difficult, actually draining, to defend the Prez when I am just not thrilled with his actions at all. Defend on one hand, hope dashed in the other is just a formula for battle fatigue.
I apologize to you for giving you the impression I did. Too defensive on my part. It is just maddening as I said.
I am sure somebody has already mentioned the ‘render under Caesar what is his.’
“in America, There are too many people who think its always somone elses job.”
This is a typical conservative response to a view of “socialist solutions” that’s just not accurate. What is interesting to me is that this is coming from somebody who projects/relies on Christ and “god” for their ultimate salvation and sanction of their moronicism–to save one’s fevered ego from the threat of annihilation.
That is what really pisses me off. He is dumping on the people who supported and voted for him to court people who would not vote for him if he ran on a platform of mom, apple, pie, and the USA.
Just finishing Jesus for the Non-Religious (2007). Not for fundamenatlists. And, Hey You! You are not alone.
As much as our emotions might be telling us to head in that direction, I think we need to listen to our better angels. We need to come up with the type of response that works with the fact that we have a centrist president and to do so in a way that sits within the rule of law and present political realities. I’m sorry. But that’s just the way it has to be. I just don’t know how to do it. Not against marauding orcs.
Hey, when it comes to dessert, that’s how I roll, baby….
If he doesn’t figure it out quick he’ll have plenty of time to ponder the notion after his failed attempt at reelection.
Kelly: heated, with ice cream?
Anyway you want it, baby.
Yup. The problem is two-fold:
1) Dems aren’t used to playing smashmouth politics
2) The media generally sides with the Republicans, no matter how wrong the Republicans might be. To that end, they pass along, embroider and amplify RNC talking points about The Evil And Vicious Democrats.
For instance, in 2000, the Atlantic Monthly adorned the cover of an issue with a picture of Al Gore as a vampire. The James Fallows cover story to which this fanged illustration referred included these words:
And:
Gee, project much, Mr. Fallows? That’s not the Al Gore we all know. But of course, truth was the first casualty in the War on Gore.
I have largely quite trying to defend Obama, other than to say he was at least marginally better than the rest of the riff raff available by the time of my last in the nation primary. I will aggressively support actual progressive policies and initiatives, regardless of where they come from, but Obama needs to grow a pair, act like he actually won a huge mandate, and fucking lead.
All for one and one for all is fine until there’s pie involved…
Weee! Sling that plate down the counter, and I’ll garb it like no tomorrow! Gracias demi!
Considering how much I owe you…here ya go. If I had whipped cream and cherries, I’d add that too.
AMEN
Hiya firepups.
Do you think Obama will ever care about liberals?
What we need is to play Chicago Rules. I had hopes for Obama, but it is clear that he learned nothing there. BTW, that (bare knuckle last man standing) has been the normal state of play for American politics for most of our history.
and we lost that fight if I recall. The other side is just not playing by the rules. And that makes it whole other type of game – one I suspect this president does not know how to play.. and frankly, nor does anyone else on our side of the aisle, including us. We may think we do, but if we do, it’s without proof.. without historical precedents and hard numbers. And I’m a precedents and hard numbers type of guy. We need to think this through before we start gathering he pitchforks and torches.
I have yet to see any signs that he even cares enough about himself to do anything.
How ya doing Cassie?
My guess is you’d love the book I’m reading. Strips away myths. Talks about the history of tribes, why the “Church” is so afraid of Others. Really radical thinker. Why Christianity is dying. Why the whole Theistic God mindset is so negative and hurtful for humanity.
I suspect that I would probably disagree with a lot of it. Comes from studying this stuff for a living.
It seems slightly ironic that “lead” (the verb) and “lead” (the element) are spelled the same. We could use less of the latter and more of the former.
So, I never realized before that the symbol Pb comes from the Latin “plumbum.” How delightful.
Muchas gracias!
Absofuckinglutely, I like your take on this. I read some of your other comments
TBogg well said
Ahh, feels good to have discharged my serious political blogospherismus. I shall now descend into the snark;
Dedicated to Rahm – Sid Vicious: I Did It My Way
Or in this case, Plumb dumb.
I found the book quite inspiring; as an atheist I am always surprised and enlightened to find religious leaders as “Christian,” in the truest sense of the word, as Spong. Their thoughts are so often drowned out by the Fundie noise machine. I went to college with some wild-ass kids from The Dalles, Oregon. Turns out their father, a preacher named Kimsey, was a great ally of Spong’s. Go figure.
I’m mostly OK but I bave a cold. Cough, fever, congested.
Nope.
Yeah, it isn’t fair to blame Harvard but I think I will anyway.
Oh, ye of little faith. You have no idea.
Ugh. That is no fun on a holiday when the weather is still good. Given any thought about where you might go to college next year?
Obama won but in the end he’s shaping up to be a loser. His bipartisanship fetish will finish his administration. Your’e right, the mushy middle wants strength, all Obama has given them is timidity, craveness (deals with big Pharma) and empty rhetoric. Obama’s political collapse will usher in a real progressive and fighter of the people who will have the courage of his/her convictions to lead the way to change people can really believe in.
Go look at this one about Cheney and his memoirs.
One never knows, Do one?
I have no faith, just reason and facts. That is the problem with writers like this for me.
Obama is an empty hat, a hollow man. As Gertrude Stein might have said, “there is no there there.”
It is narrowed down to about 20, which is still too many. I need a lot of scholarship help. I am looking for a small liberal arts college that is outside Texas.
As long as he stops stepping on ours.
You’d think he forgot how he got to where he is now.
I like this poster’s point of view. Sincere Progressives make me puke. All those pleas to write respectful letters to our Congressmen? Bullshit. The only responses I ever got were when I got downright nasty and told them in words Slimy Dick used on the Senate floor. (And why Pat Leahy didn’t haul off and throw a haymaker at that little shit is beyond me. Oh yeah – he’s another Sincere Prgressive…) That’s the real language of legislation – even Rahmie Boy knows that.
That’s why Harry “Grow a Pair” Reid is so completely ineffectual. That nice Mormon never said a swear word in his life – doesn’t want to lose the Planet his church has promised him! Does anyone think Lyndon Johnson or Mike Mansfield would have put up with this bullshit that Conrad and Baucus are pulling? Those two turncoats would have been striiped of their seniority in a New York minute. If Harry and Obama exercised Actual Leadership, they would gain power, not lose it. but they are too busy covering all their bets to do anything so simple…
In this era, “bi-partisanship” is for Wimps and Losers. Get the job done – THAT’s how you gain respect and save the country!
Heh. About right.
Either he’s stupid, or he thinks we are. Feh.
Poor Sid, another victim of Britain’s blatantly inferior National Health Service.
(Yeah, I know he died in the U.S. but this is a Republican talking point.)
Dateline October 29th, 2012 – Obama throws down:
For the first time leveraging the awesome power of his office, demands Democratic majorities in both houses support his grazing fee increase, or they can go fuck themselves when it’s time to campaign…
If you haven’t read him, you don’t have the facts. He is all about the facts. I hope more teachers have more open minds than you are showing here.
Obama is all beret and no bullets.
I know that you are cold averse, but there a bunch of first class small liberal arts colleges in the Midwest and Northeast that would probably jump at a bright, hardworking Hispanic girl. Dress warm and I think you would love the experience.
Atheist here too; and I am always surprised when I find the un-hypocritical amongst the theist leaders. It’s very rare – and when you get a critical thinker like Hans Kung or Teilhard de Chardin who freaks out the Catholics, well, it just makes one think hard, again.
There are many good hearted believers in the flocks, but many assholes amongst the leadership, and the denomination matters little.
In my experience, no. That’s the way the cookie crumbles. My eyes about popped out of my head when I saw that name.
I’m beginning to feel about Obama the way I did when the Decider was giving a speech or news conference.
Rep. Jan Schakowsky’s husband is very optimistic about health reform with a strong public option getting passed this fall:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..76202.html
- Tom
What about a beanie with a propeller on top?
And it can be a career killer to speak out, too. Being stuck in a hierarchy sucks, as many have found out the hard way.
Punk Rock Rules! (and so does Beethoven!)
Yes, I’m weird! – but you knew that. ;]
Kelly is right that a lot of so called Christians are assholes. Doesn’t mean that there aren’t some thinkers out there. Just like there might be a Few Good Democrats. Maybe.
For sure. It’s a complete waste of time and energy trying to include the repubs in ANY negotiations. They are incapable of constructive dialogue. But we’re stuck with that worthless, spineless pussy Harry reid, and all the other scumbag Dems. Obama is also a pussy, trying to put up a front of ‘bi-partisanship’. What a fucking joke. It’s high time to get vocal, start calling these pigfuckers exactly that. And traitors. Trip them up and kick them in the teeth. But I’m sure it will continue to be business as usual. The fact Obama jettisoned Van Jones because that psychotic creep Glen Beck went on and on about him? Utterly shocking. Fuck Beck, fuck Rahm, fuck Obama. Worthless cowards.
I think it is just my general aversion to reading religion writers. I am very respectful of all religious beliefs in my classes. I even advocated for the attractions of Pentacostalism the one (and pray dog the only) time I taught the anthropology of religion course. I understand the attraction, I just do not feel it. I read a lot of religious stuff when I was younger (the Bible, Book of Mormon, and Koran in their entirety, the Bhagavad Gita and Upanashads, and a lot more), but generally avoid reading religious stuff any more.
Obama merely uses his fetish of bipartisanship as political cover to preserve the status quo. He’s not about change, he’s about more of the same only with better public relations.
With the right microphone and sequins, NOTHING CAN KILL YOUR CAREER!
[KCD returns to wine glass, innocently ignoring this comment. ]
Damn, TBogg out Huntered Hunter. Wow!
Well, why would you read those books when the science ones are more fun!
There’s always “some more we don’t know, but we’re getting there; stay tuned!” and I love that about science and our knowledge frontiers. Expanding!
Beethoven would roll over if he heard that… not much risk though since he’d gone deaf and to the best of my knowledge like Francisco Franco he is still DEAD.
On that note, I bid one and all adieu.
A couple of years ago an enterprising young reporter for the student newspaper tried to stir things up between me and the local Mormon student center which was running creationist classes for those who were wavering under the secular onslaught. Wrongly identified me as an atheist (actually an agnostic who doesn’t care if there is) in the paper an cited a couple of things posted on my door (cartoons lampooning creationists and a great Upton Sinclair quote about fascism in America).
No quarrel with your aversion to religion. This writer is anti-religious.
“Dietrich Bonhoefffer once called on the Christian world to separate Christianity from religion and he os something he called “Religionless Christianity”.
He seeks to find a way through the human Jesus but beyond the confines of religion.
That’s why I thought you’d enjoy the book. It’s very anthropolical. You’ll just have to trust me. Or not.
I’m not trying to proseytise here. Just responding to your just the facts mind. Facts.
True. Reality is that I have relatively little time to read anything not related to my job (a common problem when you read – and talk – for a living).
Night, rf.
Smooch on you rattykins! Sleep well!
Beethoven would be the first to sign up on the Punk Train. I’m just saying. He was a RULE BREAKER, and dog bless him for that!
And, that is NOT Dick Cheney’s “go fuck yourself” face. That is his “We just fucked you – again” face.
Also.
Nice to hear some optimism!
What would the dick do?
I bypassed every answer.
I scrolled down to this answer.
He would do anything he could to further his renumeration at Haliburton.
Fuck the US.
anthropological …sorry.
Is that a word?
Re the Van Jones “resignation”: I didn’t vote for Neville Chamberlain. Did you?
Actually, I think that is his “I just ate your liver with some fava beans and a nice Chianti” face.
Sure is!
It is indeed and means radically different things depending on whether you are a social scientist or a theologian.
Or bejewelled evening bag, as the case may be. Check out my blog sometime; I often touch on these subjects.
cocktailhag.com/blog
That’s what we got. Obama actually makes Chamberlain look like a paragon of strength. If they pass some piece of shit health care legislation I expect him to hoist the 1,000 + tome over his head exclaiming breathlessly “we have health care in our time.”
Well, “anthroPOLICAL” @ 120 is not, but “anthropological” @ 127 is! ;]
And, just might be dependant on how open minded said folks are.
Words don’t mean. People do.
Pendantic much?
Weeee! you are totally in my favorites now!
The question we need to ask is: WWLBJD?
He was a bastard, but at least he knew how to twist arms to get his legislative agenda through. Civil Rights Act, Voting Rights Act, Medicare, Head Start, etc. (I know, I know… Gulf of Tonkin Amendment, too.) Things that progressives dreamt for nearly 30 years got passed under the guise of “JFK woulda wanted it this way, bless his memory” mostly due to the fact that LBJ knew where the bodies were buried in Congress.
Sorry, Dick. Don’t mean to be so confrontational.
Yep!
The term is also used in theology and has no relationship to my profession. I am not sure exactly what it refers to in theology, just that I got some very strange results in a couple of literature searches on a couple of rather general journal databases.
No relationship to your profession? Wha??? I better go now, just cause. I have a personal database that’s not working here.
The term as used in theology has no relationship to my profession (it refers to something else all together, though I am not sure what). As I said, it rather shocked me to be getting theology articles in a search for anthropology.
We live. We learn. And, that’s a good thing.
Think I will toddle off. Take care all.
You too. I’m taking off as well. (I have a book to read. )
shorter hager: “As Jesus Cared for Women” – by being an ass rapist.
There comes a point where helping your party means hurting your country. Quizzling went there. Now Beck’s Brats and the rest of the Republican Party……….eh!
Good Grief, Blub. What do you think the whole McCarthy Era was if not thuggish demagoguery? And it was every bit as bad as all this if not much worse. We are heading there though.
Thanks… Could be time to tip over here; old age and all…. G’night.
I’m pissed and disheartened too, but I’m not going to retroactively give Bill Clinton a pass. It was exactly this sort of squeamish, gutless bullshit that soured me on him in his first twerm. Where do you think Emanuel and Stephanopolous cut their teeth on this kind of giving the backhand to your base to prove you’re a regular guy to the Washington press corps routine?
Bill Clinton’s two major legislative accomplishments were renegging on the Democratic Party (and tha nation’s) historic committment to AFDC and passing NAFTA. Old man Bush did less for the wingnut cause.
Politiicans in the US ( and maybe everywhere for ll I know) are always over cautious and a behind the curve in public opinion. They keep spinning Obamas problems as the “conservative” americans who are “starting to worry’ about the deficit. Bullshit! no real people worry about the deficit. that is such utter drivel but the media repeats it over and over and over and over.Americans are worried about getting sick and dying , their kids getting sick and dying, and losing thier jobs. THATS what they are worrying about. Obama may be the first president in 70 years, who was actually ELECTED with a mandate, and the only president in American history to NOT ACT LIKE HE DID ANYWAY. that is the problem with obama
TBogg’s post is the topic of a short blog post of mine… but much better written. As a Muslim, let me remind you all that it’s the extremists who get the air-time with the media.
You are asking Obama to be something he is not. He does not lead…he gets along…and in the process he personally benefits and advances. He has never faced a tough personal or political challenge. He has deftly climbed the academic and political ladders, by through his own admission, being a blank slate, allowing himself to be the projection of others desires and virtues.
He is all about compromise…he’s been doing it his entire life. He tries to be all things to all people and he will sell out and sacrifice anything or anyone that threatens to define him in anything but the most vague terms. He sold out his white grandmother, his black preacher, what makes progressives think he won’t sell you out too?
You all bought into an illusion, and now that you have waded into the fog, you cannot pin down the cloud.
Oh, my: “healthcare in our time.”
What savage beauty!
I will use that phrase relentlessly. Thank you!
The President spent the whole month of August ropeadoping, while the right wing was accusing him of kidnapping the Lindberg baby, inventing Cholera, killing grandmothers, convening death panels and secretly aborting white cracker babies.
Then two days ago he starts making phone calls to the 84 member progressive caucus to ‘find out how much they’ll give’.
After all they were in safe districts and we all need to help the 13 bluefucking dogs.
Sorry the math is a little fuzzy.
He had to know when the senate finance committee became the gang of six, the blue dogs owned by insurance companies and three republican crackers, and think a consensus would come of it. Give me a break, so much for playing 3D chess and keeping the cards close to his vest. I think there is a reason the President didn’t make it to the bedside of the dying lion of the Senate who was lucid almost to the end.
Then to throw Van Jones under glenn becks rabid teabagging bus is blink at murdoch. And they know it. Beck has three more in his sights and his black board is full of chalk. Cass Sundstein is the first name on the list.
So yes, there is some genuine real anger. The President is at 2.89 strikes with me. He has till Wednesday, at that speech barry better bring Barak. He has to say ENOUGH. Death panels are LIES, , free insurance for illegals, LIES, abortions, LIES, killing grand mothers, LIES.
The public option is in, to keep the insurance companies from being more dishonest. Just like I promised.
“barry better bring Barak”
LOL
Heck of a time to be in the throes of an identity crisis.
Possibly. In either case, we are fucked… and he is smiling about it. (Yes, that is his smiley face – I have it on good authority from his lesbian daughter’s husband…)
I couldn’t agree more about telegraphing a fear of walking away from the table. But I’m not sure it’s too late. I’d be okay with that as long as it won’t make it any worse or wouldn’t make it significantly better for those at the very bottom. My great fear is getting just enough to entice the politicos to kick the can down the road another five or so years. I don’t care if it’s for 8 million or 40 million, third world medical care for anyone in this country is unconscionable.
I keep thinking they’ll bring out the balls that defeated Hillary and (much, much less difficult to do) McCain.
Well said. Tx.
Agreed, but…
Beyond the fact that first and foremost Obama is a politician, there are two (or more) factors at work.
1) Rahm Emanual controls every bit of information he has. Good grief, he tried to take the man’s blackberry away from him. Do you honestly think Barry O. can even visit The Wall Street Pravda website without Adult supervision?
2) The lessons of what happens to presidents who don’t follow Company orders are well known.
Exhibit A: Jimmy Carter
Exhibit B: John F. Kennedy
In order to act like his own man, he will have to confront his own Praetorians. Incessantly. 24h a day.
How long would you survive in that environment? Without becoming Dick Cheney?
I am now convinced that Barack Obama is channeling Bill Clinton. Everything he does is so identical. Compromise all of the issues that Democrats hold dear. Toss each and every one of your staffers under the bus if the wingnuts begin a smear campaign against them. It all fits. We have the third Bill Clinton term!
This is this thread. Obama shoulda done this, Obama shoulda done that, if only he’d used my sparkly unicorn pet phrase we woulda won, if only he’da been a hard-headed gimlet-eyed realist and cracked some heads… Whose? How? How do you stop Bill Nelson from being a dink? How do you solve a problem like Max Baucus? How, tangibly, immediately, does this happen?
TBogg calls out people who think sincerity brings about change. Fist-shaking bloggy rage is a kind of sincerity too. It’s a simulacrum of effectiveness. It’s about as powerful as yelling back at your TV. What is it you want done, specifically, and what are you doing to make it happen?
I don’t think so. To my understanding nobody sought to systematically impugn or deny the authority (or
the right to exist, for that matter) of the office of the presidency during the McCarthy era. To find parallels, one really has to go back to Bryant’s time and the Know Nothings.
Dick Cheney would simply veto anything with “health care” in the legislation unless it had strict tort reform control and interstate sale of insurance and Medical Savings Accounts. I like “what whould Dick Cheney do?” Dick Cheney has cojones…
… which are firmly ensconced in your mouth. Go away and stop pimping for the insurance companies who will screw you and anyone else over the moment their obscene profits shrink by 0.0001%.
Killing, torturing and shooting in the face have their place.