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	<title>Comments on: Janeane Garofalo is like Stokely Carmichael, Malcolm X, Angela Davis, and Ron Karenga times infinity</title>
	<atom:link href="http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2009/10/04/janeane-garofalo-is-like-stokely-carmichael-malcolm-x-angela-davis-and-ron-karenga-times-infinity/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2009/10/04/janeane-garofalo-is-like-stokely-carmichael-malcolm-x-angela-davis-and-ron-karenga-times-infinity/</link>
	<description>\&#34;...a somewhat popular blogger\&#34;</description>
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		<title>By: tejanarusa</title>
		<link>http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2009/10/04/janeane-garofalo-is-like-stokely-carmichael-malcolm-x-angela-davis-and-ron-karenga-times-infinity/#comment-43215</link>
		<dc:creator>tejanarusa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 01:28:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2009/10/04/janeane-garofalo-is-like-stokely-carmichael-malcolm-x-angela-davis-and-ron-karenga-times-infinity/#comment-43215</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Umm - recovering lawyer here - without looking it up *g* - I’d say that the concept of “fighting words” varies by state.  If the state allows a self-defense of “fighting words,” such words are usually pretty well defined at least by case law.&lt;br /&gt;
No, “racist” is not one of those.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Now, the scenario this idiot posits - that a “librul” will just walk up to him out of the blue and yell, “you racist,” might be slightly different….but that’s as logical as the rest of his statement.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Umm &#8211; recovering lawyer here &#8211; without looking it up *g* &#8211; I’d say that the concept of “fighting words” varies by state.  If the state allows a self-defense of “fighting words,” such words are usually pretty well defined at least by case law.<br />
No, “racist” is not one of those.</p>
<p>Now, the scenario this idiot posits &#8211; that a “librul” will just walk up to him out of the blue and yell, “you racist,” might be slightly different….but that’s as logical as the rest of his statement.</p>
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		<title>By: tigrismus</title>
		<link>http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2009/10/04/janeane-garofalo-is-like-stokely-carmichael-malcolm-x-angela-davis-and-ron-karenga-times-infinity/#comment-43211</link>
		<dc:creator>tigrismus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 00:43:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2009/10/04/janeane-garofalo-is-like-stokely-carmichael-malcolm-x-angela-davis-and-ron-karenga-times-infinity/#comment-43211</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;If someone comes up to you and calls you a racist or otherwise provokes you with fighting words, you are legally entitled to beat the shit out of that person.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;He’s either full of shit or the crappiest lawyer ever, because no fucking way does calling a man a “racist” give him a free hand to commit assault.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>If someone comes up to you and calls you a racist or otherwise provokes you with fighting words, you are legally entitled to beat the shit out of that person.</em></p>
<p>He’s either full of shit or the crappiest lawyer ever, because no fucking way does calling a man a “racist” give him a free hand to commit assault.</p>
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		<title>By: Ruthie</title>
		<link>http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2009/10/04/janeane-garofalo-is-like-stokely-carmichael-malcolm-x-angela-davis-and-ron-karenga-times-infinity/#comment-43205</link>
		<dc:creator>Ruthie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 21:02:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2009/10/04/janeane-garofalo-is-like-stokely-carmichael-malcolm-x-angela-davis-and-ron-karenga-times-infinity/#comment-43205</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;My point is that you can’t. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;First of all, the concept of “fighting words” has nothing to do with one’s perceptions of need for self-defense.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In &lt;em&gt;Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire,&lt;/em&gt; the U.S. Supreme Court upheld a conviction of a Jehovah’s Witness for calling a city marshal a “damned Faschist” and a “goddamned racketeer” under a statute providing that “[no] person shall address any offensive, derisive, or annoying word to any otherr person who is lawfully in any street  or other public place . . . .” The Supreme Court of New Hampshire construed the words to reach only words which have a direct tendncy to cause acts of violence by the persons to whom, individually, the remark is addressed.” This definition was approved in the &lt;em&gt;Chaplinsky&lt;/em&gt; decision. (315 US at 568 (1942).)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The contemporary doctrinal approach is probably best illustrated by the decision in &lt;em&gt;Cohen v. California,&lt;/em&gt; where the US Supreme Court refused to classify a vulgarity appearing on the back of a jacket–”Fuck the Draft”–as “fighting words.” Justice Harlan’s opinion pointed out that offensive utterances are necessary side effects of free expression, and a power to maintain “a suitable level of discourse within the body politic ” is inherently illimitable. In other word’s one man’s obscenity is another man’s poetry. Except in situations where the audience is captive or where the broadcasting of an offensive message would intrude into the privacy of the home, government may not purge public dialog of unwelcome words or symbols, just as it may not prohibit unwelcom ideas. (403 US 15,25-26 (1971).)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In &lt;em&gt;Terminiello v. Chicago,&lt;/em&gt; the US Supreme Court refused to consider whether race-baiting speech that attracted “an angry and turbulent crowd” was itself constitutionally protected. The high court reversed the speaker’s breach of the peace conviction because the statute punished speech that &lt;strong&gt;“stirs the public to anger [or] invites dispute” &lt;/strong&gt; as overbroad, and void on it’s face. (See boldface for the legally problematic statutory language.) Justice Douglas, who wrote the opinion, further stated: “A function of free speech under our system of government is to invite dispute. It amy indeed best serve its high purpose when it induces a condition of unrest, creates dissatisfaction with conditions as they are, or even stirs people to anger.”(337 US 1, 4 (1949).)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Note that there is nothing in the above about feeling free to rearrange a speaker’s face if you disagree with what s/he says. As a matter of fact, the opposite is true: Law enforcement officials are obligated to let people speak, regardless of how odious the message may be, as a Jewish community with numerous holocaust survivors discovered when they attempted to pass an ordinance prohibiting members of a Neo-Nazi group to march through their community wearing swastikas. (&lt;em&gt;Collin v. Smith, &lt;/em&gt;447 F.Supp. 676 (N.D. Ill. 1978).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;h/t &lt;em&gt;American Constitutional Law&lt;/em&gt;, Laurence Tribe (2d ed).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Self-defense is a defense to certain tortious or criminal acts. For the sake of brevity, I will address the civil aspects. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Self-defense is a privilege that applies if it is necessary for a person who is attacked to take reasonable steps to prevent harm to himself, when there is no time to resort to the law. There are rules:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;1. Apparent Necessity:&lt;/strong&gt; The person asserting the privilege must reasibably believe that he is in imminent danger bodily harm. He is held to the reasonable person standard in this belief. In other words, the law doesn’t expect him to be a hero, but an ordinary reasonable person must perceive his situation as being dangerous enough to warrant taking the action.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
2. Reasonable Force: &lt;/strong&gt;The privilege is limited only to the force necessary for protection agaisnt the threat. Excessive force is NOT privileged. For example if you think you can whip out a gun and shoot an attacker who raises his hand to hit you in a bar fight, make sure you’ve memorized the phone number of the criminal defense lawyer who advertises on late night TV. Similarly, there is not privilege to continue to use force after an attacker has been disarmed. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;3. You are never privileged to used deadly force to protect property.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My point is that you can’t. </p>
<p>First of all, the concept of “fighting words” has nothing to do with one’s perceptions of need for self-defense.</p>
<p>In <em>Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire,</em> the U.S. Supreme Court upheld a conviction of a Jehovah’s Witness for calling a city marshal a “damned Faschist” and a “goddamned racketeer” under a statute providing that “[no] person shall address any offensive, derisive, or annoying word to any otherr person who is lawfully in any street  or other public place . . . .” The Supreme Court of New Hampshire construed the words to reach only words which have a direct tendncy to cause acts of violence by the persons to whom, individually, the remark is addressed.” This definition was approved in the <em>Chaplinsky</em> decision. (315 US at 568 (1942).)</p>
<p>The contemporary doctrinal approach is probably best illustrated by the decision in <em>Cohen v. California,</em> where the US Supreme Court refused to classify a vulgarity appearing on the back of a jacket–”Fuck the Draft”–as “fighting words.” Justice Harlan’s opinion pointed out that offensive utterances are necessary side effects of free expression, and a power to maintain “a suitable level of discourse within the body politic ” is inherently illimitable. In other word’s one man’s obscenity is another man’s poetry. Except in situations where the audience is captive or where the broadcasting of an offensive message would intrude into the privacy of the home, government may not purge public dialog of unwelcome words or symbols, just as it may not prohibit unwelcom ideas. (403 US 15,25-26 (1971).)</p>
<p>In <em>Terminiello v. Chicago,</em> the US Supreme Court refused to consider whether race-baiting speech that attracted “an angry and turbulent crowd” was itself constitutionally protected. The high court reversed the speaker’s breach of the peace conviction because the statute punished speech that <strong>“stirs the public to anger [or] invites dispute” </strong> as overbroad, and void on it’s face. (See boldface for the legally problematic statutory language.) Justice Douglas, who wrote the opinion, further stated: “A function of free speech under our system of government is to invite dispute. It amy indeed best serve its high purpose when it induces a condition of unrest, creates dissatisfaction with conditions as they are, or even stirs people to anger.”(337 US 1, 4 (1949).)</p>
<p>Note that there is nothing in the above about feeling free to rearrange a speaker’s face if you disagree with what s/he says. As a matter of fact, the opposite is true: Law enforcement officials are obligated to let people speak, regardless of how odious the message may be, as a Jewish community with numerous holocaust survivors discovered when they attempted to pass an ordinance prohibiting members of a Neo-Nazi group to march through their community wearing swastikas. (<em>Collin v. Smith, </em>447 F.Supp. 676 (N.D. Ill. 1978).</p>
<p>h/t <em>American Constitutional Law</em>, Laurence Tribe (2d ed).</p>
<p>Self-defense is a defense to certain tortious or criminal acts. For the sake of brevity, I will address the civil aspects. </p>
<p>Self-defense is a privilege that applies if it is necessary for a person who is attacked to take reasonable steps to prevent harm to himself, when there is no time to resort to the law. There are rules:<br /><strong>1. Apparent Necessity:</strong> The person asserting the privilege must reasibably believe that he is in imminent danger bodily harm. He is held to the reasonable person standard in this belief. In other words, the law doesn’t expect him to be a hero, but an ordinary reasonable person must perceive his situation as being dangerous enough to warrant taking the action.<br /><strong><br />
2. Reasonable Force: </strong>The privilege is limited only to the force necessary for protection agaisnt the threat. Excessive force is NOT privileged. For example if you think you can whip out a gun and shoot an attacker who raises his hand to hit you in a bar fight, make sure you’ve memorized the phone number of the criminal defense lawyer who advertises on late night TV. Similarly, there is not privilege to continue to use force after an attacker has been disarmed. </p>
<p><strong>3. You are never privileged to used deadly force to protect property.<br /></strong></p>
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		<title>By: Sagra</title>
		<link>http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2009/10/04/janeane-garofalo-is-like-stokely-carmichael-malcolm-x-angela-davis-and-ron-karenga-times-infinity/#comment-43201</link>
		<dc:creator>Sagra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 19:53:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;No, the teabagger movement is all about sticking their nads in America’s face. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It’s like the truck nuts of policial movements.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, the teabagger movement is all about sticking their nads in America’s face. </p>
<p>It’s like the truck nuts of policial movements.</p>
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		<title>By: StringonaStickformerlyMakeItStop</title>
		<link>http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2009/10/04/janeane-garofalo-is-like-stokely-carmichael-malcolm-x-angela-davis-and-ron-karenga-times-infinity/#comment-43187</link>
		<dc:creator>StringonaStickformerlyMakeItStop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 17:38:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2009/10/04/janeane-garofalo-is-like-stokely-carmichael-malcolm-x-angela-davis-and-ron-karenga-times-infinity/#comment-43187</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;This guy sounds like as good a lawyer as Oily Taintz.  I’m trying to recall where in the law it states that you can beat the shit out of someone if they say something to you that you don’t like; can any &lt;em&gt;real&lt;/em&gt; lawyers out there help me out?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This guy sounds like as good a lawyer as Oily Taintz.  I’m trying to recall where in the law it states that you can beat the shit out of someone if they say something to you that you don’t like; can any <em>real</em> lawyers out there help me out?</p>
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		<title>By: Ruthie</title>
		<link>http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2009/10/04/janeane-garofalo-is-like-stokely-carmichael-malcolm-x-angela-davis-and-ron-karenga-times-infinity/#comment-43175</link>
		<dc:creator>Ruthie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 16:23:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2009/10/04/janeane-garofalo-is-like-stokely-carmichael-malcolm-x-angela-davis-and-ron-karenga-times-infinity/#comment-43175</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;“Junk” is passe if they’ve co-opted the term. Ever notice that the uvula looks like a limp tea bag hanging at the back of one’s throat? We need a t-shirt slogan that utilizes the word “uvula.” I like the concept of an insult that might actually get a wingnut to consult a dictionary. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;My vote: “UVULATION” will make you go blind!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“Junk” is passe if they’ve co-opted the term. Ever notice that the uvula looks like a limp tea bag hanging at the back of one’s throat? We need a t-shirt slogan that utilizes the word “uvula.” I like the concept of an insult that might actually get a wingnut to consult a dictionary. </p>
<p>My vote: “UVULATION” will make you go blind!</p>
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		<title>By: Mungencakes</title>
		<link>http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2009/10/04/janeane-garofalo-is-like-stokely-carmichael-malcolm-x-angela-davis-and-ron-karenga-times-infinity/#comment-43158</link>
		<dc:creator>Mungencakes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 06:51:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2009/10/04/janeane-garofalo-is-like-stokely-carmichael-malcolm-x-angela-davis-and-ron-karenga-times-infinity/#comment-43158</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I think they have co-opted that phrase, too. It shall now be “junk in your grill”.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think they have co-opted that phrase, too. It shall now be “junk in your grill”.</p>
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		<title>By: DrDick</title>
		<link>http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2009/10/04/janeane-garofalo-is-like-stokely-carmichael-malcolm-x-angela-davis-and-ron-karenga-times-infinity/#comment-43153</link>
		<dc:creator>DrDick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 05:19:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;WTF is the right’s obsession with Jeanene Garafolo?  She really is not that big a name and does not really have all that much influence (though I often like what she has to say).  These people seriously need to get a grip.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WTF is the right’s obsession with Jeanene Garafolo?  She really is not that big a name and does not really have all that much influence (though I often like what she has to say).  These people seriously need to get a grip.</p>
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		<title>By: millerdunwoody</title>
		<link>http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2009/10/04/janeane-garofalo-is-like-stokely-carmichael-malcolm-x-angela-davis-and-ron-karenga-times-infinity/#comment-43152</link>
		<dc:creator>millerdunwoody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 04:27:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2009/10/04/janeane-garofalo-is-like-stokely-carmichael-malcolm-x-angela-davis-and-ron-karenga-times-infinity/#comment-43152</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I’ve always liked Jeanine, but now I gotta wonder:  &lt;a href=&quot;http://burningheretic.wordpress.com/2009/09/30/good-news-and-bad-news-about-the-impending-end-of-times/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://burningheretic.wordpres.....-of-times/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’ve always liked Jeanine, but now I gotta wonder:  <a href="http://burningheretic.wordpress.com/2009/09/30/good-news-and-bad-news-about-the-impending-end-of-times/" rel="nofollow">http://burningheretic.wordpres&#8230;..-of-times/</a></p>
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		<title>By: commieatheist</title>
		<link>http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2009/10/04/janeane-garofalo-is-like-stokely-carmichael-malcolm-x-angela-davis-and-ron-karenga-times-infinity/#comment-43151</link>
		<dc:creator>commieatheist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 04:23:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt; We’re here, we’re Teabaggers, and we’re in your face&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Methinks it would be (literally) the other way around, no?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em> We’re here, we’re Teabaggers, and we’re in your face</em></p>
<p>Methinks it would be (literally) the other way around, no?</p>
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