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Over at Andy Breitbart’s BigGov they’re fussin’ and fumin’ and talkin’ revolution because Barry from the Kenyan Block just gave a secret “we don’ need no steekin badges” Stay Out Of Jail card to Interpol and it wasn’t the moody popster Interpol guys.
This story has begun to make the rounds at some other blogs and web sites. Some scream about the on-set of the New World Order, some merely question the timing, motives and logic behind such a move while we are still fighting foreign wars and under threat of attack from Al Qaeda and other international terrorist bodies. I certainly don’t walk down the New World Order/One World Government path, I don’t look good in tin-foil hats… but, I do wonder why this move was made so quietly and why the White House Press Corps has not made any hay about it.
The answer to that can be found here but never mind that, because, as they say, there are wheels within wheels, man and the conspiracy is so deep that everyone, and I mean EVERYONE is involved.
Meet commenter Scott Groves of North Carolina:
We’ve been twittering about this all week long, and no one from any news organization has touched this story. Jake Tapper asked a couple of questions about it to the WH and was ignored, then after that, Tapper wrote a fluff piece saying this was no big deal. Tapper is a closet commie like the rest of the news agencies are. I’ll be very disappointed if Beck, O’Riely or Hannity don’t cover this story. If they don’t, we’ll know that they are going along with this agenda also and can’t be trusted.
We are no longer the USA with this Executive Order signed, we have lost our sovereignty to the UN. Our politicians and media have sold us out to the global governance of the elites. The Constitution has now been totally shredded, and is no longer a valid document according to the traitors in DC.
Oh, if only Scott Groves would leave Real America North Carolina and go to Not America Washington DC, bringing some of that commonsense conservatism we keep hearing about with him.
Oh wait:
* Name Scott Groves
* Location Charlotte, NC
* Bio I am hoping to run for the House seat of NC Dist. 12 in 2010, everything depends on if my wife and I can survive financially until then.
Hooray! We’re saved! Unless “Beck, O’Riely or Hannity don’t” endorse him because, well, you know….
Remember: Mums the word.
Dumb is another word that also comes to mind.
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Forgive my ignorance, but isn’t the INTERPOL simply a glorified data warehouse?
Birchers on the rise in 2010….
Oh boy…may have to stock up on popcorn…this should fun.
Clearly, Interpol assassins working for Obama have already infiltrated the staff at the Kahala Hotel and posed as room service to deliver a poison to an unsuspecting Rush; they just underestimated the dose.
Bahahahahah….hahahahahah.
Here’s the money quote: “[T]he fears and accusations are based on ignorance…” Ergo, same as it ever was.
Is “commie” Wingerese for “Anyone who rolls their eyes when we start talking”? And when did Jake Tapper become a news agency?
Is “commie” Wingerese for “Anyone who rolls their eyes when we start talking”?
Still laughing.
Talking points left,right, center MSNBC News,Fox News,Cnn News and C-Span transparent coverage of behind close door meetings.Cora graft the deviation of the left,right and center.Golf trumps,Rush with chest paine trumps,Terrorist trumps,Health Care. The 57 Democrats That signed the July 30 letter saying that they simply cannot vote for a bill that at a minimum does not have a public plan.I would call for a public plan that anyone could buy into or Medicare anyone could buy into.If anyone votes for less needs to know there carrears are over.If thay say that they canot deliver what they pledged and vote for less they lied.When they tell you to be glad there watching out for you can you really trust them.Vote anyone out that votes for a bill that walks on the American citizens.Public Option buy in if you chose transparent will give you choise of Doctors Put your Health Care in your hands not the Insurance corpations unless you chose.Health Insurance you have to pick from there list of Doctors Will not pay if you have to go to doctor not on there list. Health Care and Health Insurance is differant as night and day.Left,Right and Center common citizen that ever had to use there health Insurance for anything cronic know the differance between health insurance and Health Care. Hold the 57 Democrats to there pledge show them were tired of liers.
Shorter Scott Groves:
“Why won’t anyone take me seriously?”
I’ll bet cash money that Scotty there is absolutely against welfare. Of course, the unemployment benefits he receives are NOT welfare, while the unemployment benefits the black guy across town receives ARE welfare. Scotty’s broke and unemployed because of forces beyond his control that are arrayed against him in a vast conspiracy; the black guy is unemployed because he WANTS to be unemployed.
And so on.
I love this:
Well, they already did, bucko. Now run along and go back to whimpering in your bunker with your C-rations and your copies of Southern Partisan.
You bet’cha!
on the rise indeed
A-yep. The linking of lower taxes/government revenue with hurting black people is a key pillar of the modern Southern Strategy as it’s been practiced for the past half-century. As Atwater pointed out way back in 1981, it means that you don’t have to tip your hand by yelling “ni–er, ni–er” — you can talk about cutting taxes instead and all the racists whose votes you’re trying to get will understand just what you’re really saying.
Suderman’s darn lucky that Our Meggs dint see this guy before she saw Suderman.
So much of our govt. is not transparent now. It doesn’t seem to make for good public policy. We were told to just trust bush with the wars. The HC bill was secret for a very long time.
I do not think it bodes well that this is done in secret. I do not know what Interpol is.And really do not care. But the secrecy is puzzling if it is so inocuous.
Hey Scott Groves, good luck!
What issues are you planning to run on and who do you have already you can count on for support? Do you have fundraising plans all sewed up? Better get on it.
As to big issues, go with energy. Talk about converting to clean, green energy. That means no coal and no nukes. Get educated on nuclear wastes. I did a big data dump on the issue in this post,
http://www.alternet.org/world/144892/don/'t_mess_with_yemen
And study up on the toxic effects of burning coal. Read up on air pollution. It is killing people and making health care even more necessary, difficult and expensive. Look into military families about Agent Orange and Gulf war Syndrome. I specifically want to find evidence of uranium poisoning in our troops and their children. That is going to be a hot button issue that can make or break an entry into politics. (Like they might try to kill you if they think you have a chance.)
Keep us posted!
Sister Lauren
I’ve been fumbling around this site and feel too overwhelmed with gov to read any more today.
http://www.projectcensored.org/
INTERPOL is a glorified data warehouse in the same sense that the FBI or the local police are glorified data warehouses.
Wiki definition of:
Interpol [ˈɪntəˌpɒl]
n acronym for
(Law) International Criminal Police Organization, an association of over 100 national police forces, devoted chiefly to fighting international crime
Great post, TBogg. So Scott Graves considers running for congress something you do when you’re finding it hard to support yourself and your wife otherwise? I sometimes think there are many like Scott in Congress already.
Well, I’m not sure what you mean by this diary. Sounds like ha-ha-ha look at the great unwashed etc. Actually, if you read history there are conspiracies and it is kind of insane to me that, all of a sudden, because we live in America there are no conspiracies stuff just happens.
Well life doesn’t work that way. People are always struggling and plotting for some kind of competitive advantage. It is no surprise to me that people who have been badly educated (our educational system really sucks and I believe the suckiness is not a matter of incompetence but is actually a conspiracy to keep people ignorant by the elites — just go back and read those who started public education in this country) will believe a lot of silly things. But they are right in believing we are living within a number of conspiracies. I leave it to you to try to understand them and how they work. But you can look anywhere — GWOT? You think that’s legit? Health-care reform — you think people just got together and created the best bill they could? You think Congresspeople and people in the medical industry don’t plot together to create a common story and work the PR firms (I know from being in Washington for three decades how this works)?
I think the right is right in believing in conspiracies because they are all around us. It is the left that seems unable intellectually and unwilling as a matter of theology to consider connecting dots.
Go back to the classical world and read about all the conspiracies that were prevalent then. They still are but the stakes are higher.
Some “international” police organization gets additional powers. There has been no discussion or debate about this. Just as the “Patriot Act” gave more unacountable power to government, this is another step closer to a police state. Well, we probably already have a police state anyway.
Jane Hamsher can find common ground with Grover about corporate and congressional corruption. Perhaps we should agree with those that support our legal system, with citizens having certain rights, against abusive government. Unelected foreigners should not have police powers in the United States of America.
We may need to do some investigating of Interpol. Interpol does have experience in torture and murder. Wiki says Interpol was part of the Nazi police state. The infamous and brutal architect of the “Final Solution”, Reinhard Heydrich even ran Interpol.
From the NY Times article:
When public international organizations are operating on United States soil, a law allows the president to grant them certain rights and immunities, just as foreign embassies receive privileges. More than 70 organizations — including the International Committee of the Red Cross, the World Bank and the International Pacific Halibut Commission — receive those rights.
Interpol does not have agents, like the CIA and MI6 and SMERSH. It’s a data clearing house. Its NY office has five people. RTFA (where a = article).
Of course, if you’re a halibut–which some of you are–it may not be so benign…
I do not think it bodes well that this is done in secret. I do not know what Interpol is.And really do not care. But the secrecy is puzzling if it is so inocuous.
If it was done in secret, how come we know about it? Oh, right, it WASN’T done in secret.
In any case, the fact that you “do not know what Interpol is” and “do not care” makes people unlikely to consider your concerns worth addressing. Educate yourself before you pull the fire alarm.
INTERPOL is a glorified data warehouse in the same sense that the FBI or the local police are glorified data warehouses.
Not exactly. Interpol does not have it’s own police forces/investigators. Contrary to popular belief and lots of silly movies, there are no actual “Interpol agents” wandering around various countries looking for bad guys, solving mysteries and shooting at criminals from fire escapes.
It’s more or less a data base/clearinghouse that shares information between national police forces so that crimes and criminals can be tracked by national police forces (FBI, Scotland Yard, French Sureté, etc.) across international borders. It’s essentially a bunch of office workers who administer something like our own national criminal data base that “CSIs” in all the states can tap into for information and leads, only on an international scale.
While I think one can be happy that America favorite “somewhat popular blogger” has an internet home where he doesn’t have to worry about hosting duties, it’s always a bit of a whiplash when the periodic front paging at the main lake house draws in the crazy.
So all this appear to do is extend the Reagan adminitration’s agreement to protect Interpol from being attacked for being either malicious or incompetent. Other than the idea that Interpol is a little better protected by the cone of silence, this concept is pervasive among the law enforcement agencies already, this thing brings nothing to the table.
The motivation was probably around any future cases where we might detain Arabs from Europe that we deem as posing a threat. If their data is made immune in the same way other non-American agencies already are then they can be comfortable making unsubstantiated and unverifiable claims directly rather than passing that information to other agencies first. The way things are right now any serious claim made by a non-American agency of international lawbreaking, read Islamist, would not be traceable to its source anyway so this is just bookkeeping.
Arab is the new black.
Every time the wackos (wacos?) make paranoid claims the first question one might consider is whether or not they are getting airtime simply to make valid concerns impossible to explain in the din of irrational shouting.
Did anyone notice the NASCAR paraphenalia on the shelf behind Scott ?
What is it about wingnuts and NASCAR?
Groves is running against Mel Watt!
That more than his paranoid fantasies shows he’s loony. Watt’s district is a minority-majority district that extends from Charlotte to Greensboro.
If he’s from Charlotte, he’s not rural and might not even be a native North Carolinian. Could be a midwestern Bircher, for example, or a northern border black helicopter theorist. One worldism is not the usual Southern paranoia. That would be reserved for the non-states-rights Union, better know as the fedrul govmint.
WHY the immunity from Freedom of Information Act requests?
Did you just miss the New York Times link? That’s not a secret, left wing newspaper, I hope ya know.
can anybody tell me where “interpol” headquarters are, i want to join. Ive never met or even seen an interpol employee in 50+ years, and i dont know anyone who has but im really hoping that its like the Justice League or something really cool like that. I could never compete with superman no wway, but if they gave me one of their interpol “wolverine” suits or something, and i started working out every day i could hang.
Why can’t a person find out what lead to them being put on the No-Fly list? The answer is almost certainly the same.
Protect the data, no matter where the information came from and don’t allow it to be testable in court or accessible to public scrutiny. Large databases are notoriously easy to compromise.
Should we be cheering Interpol immunity because some tea baggers are worried about it?
That seems pretty f*cking stupid.
Interpol operates out of the Department of Justice inside the United States. While Interpol has some limited immunities given by Ronald Reagan in the early 1980’s, it does not — or at least did not until last week — have immunity from the 4th Amendment. Consequently, this international agency could, should it abuse its powers, have the federal government seize its assets, etc.
In other words, the international police organization Interpol was treated like every other law enforcement agency in America — it was subject to FOIA requests and could, like any arm of a municipal, county, state, or federal government agency, have its property taken by the federal government if it crossed the boundaries of criminal law protection for the accused.
For no discernible reason whatsoever, last Wednesday when no one was looking, Barack Obama signed an executive order giving all immunities of foreign powers to Interpol.
In other words, Interpol is now in a better position than any American law enforcement institution that operates on American soil. It cannot have its records searched or seized and it is not subject to the restraints of sunshine and transparency that FOIA requests can bring.
(Exceerpt,link to follow)
Obama gives up U.S. Sovereignty – gives INTERPOL exemption from …Dec 29, 2009 … Additionally, Interpol is a foreign power, but operates out of the U.S. Department of Justice inside …. Chris Dodd – Mortgage Fraud / AIG …
http://www.fireandreamitchell.com/…/obama-gives-up-u-s-sovereignty-gives-interpol-exemption-from-compliance-with-the-freedom-of-informat... – Cached
It’s bait for Megam McArdle. She has a deeply secret, deeply intractable hot spot for NASCAR. Like Mann Coulter, but Mann goes to track mens’ rooms. Fer Meggers, it’s “cleaning up after the cocktail party.” Savvy?
From the article: LaTonya Miller, the spokeswoman for the Justice Department’s Interpol bureau, said the order would have no effect on the bureau. It routinely receives and responds to Freedom of Information Act requests, she said, and will continue to do so.
When I posted the executive orders disposition list on the reasons for optimism thread, I hoped people would see the interpol order as one of the positive initiatives.
Since Wilson, there has been a running battle between the so-called “internationalists” and the “sovereignty” folks in government.
Predictably most of the push for increased internationalization of American governmental practices have come from liberal democratic administrations and Congresses.
During the Bush II autarchy, there was a push from the liberal community,that was defeated both in the courts and in congress, to give international courts more influence in our activities.
We discovered when we were investigating the seeming extra-legality of the tortures being conducted that, over the years, the United States had carefully exempted itself from international court jurisdictions in such a way that in conventions we appeared to be signatories to, we had given ourself legal escape hatches.
The opposition to allowing any legally related inter-sovereignty is coming from the conservative faction and is solely motivated by their desire to keep the structure of laws in this semi-feudal society of theirs, intact against the prevailing liberalization and humanistic change in primarily Europe.
To any readers who are interested in this topic, I recommend the backpages of Opinio Juris where these issues are discussed.
The seminal court case on this topic during the Bush II period was Medellin
Fall of the Republic is a documentary worth watching:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VebOTc-7shU
While I can’t say I’m opposed to this more than some other forms of police immunity it seems a bit far fetched to say that anyone who opposes these kinds of things is a ultra-conservative. Support for extraordinary police and judicial powers has always been a hallmark of conservatism. Believing that the state and its legal authorities will always work to the best interests of all of its members is not one of those things I do. Believing that law operates best in the shadows is not my game either.
@#18
“INTERPOL is a glorified data warehouse in the same sense that the FBI or the local police are glorified data warehouses.
Ann in AZ January 3rd, 2010 at 7:39 am
If this snip from the article TBogg linked to is accurate, you couldn’t be more wrong.
“Contrary to its portrayal in some movies, Interpol has no police force that conducts investigations and makes arrests. Rather, it serves its 188 member countries by working as a clearinghouse for police departments in different nations to share law enforcement information — like files on wanted criminals and terrorists, stolen cars and passports, and notices that a law enforcement agency has issued an arrest warrant for a fugitive.”
The local police and the FBI can put a gun in your face and arrest you…..Interpol …not so much.
Just curious, could a future administration now use Interpol to kidnap political opponents?
Not sure I’d want the next Bush/Cheney administration to have such power. Not sure I’d want any administration to have such temptation.
I HIGHLY recommend this article for a much bigger discussion on the Interpol issue-it is far reaching in its potential implications:
http://www.examiner.com/x-27672-Portland-Political-Buzz-Examiner~y2010m1d2-INTERPOL-story-heats-up
The President, according to the SCOTUS, already has that power. Whether he chooses to take the risk of acting is another thing altogether. Probably settle for easier targets.
Interpol as a now opaque data warehouse would be much more useful as the source of a sedition warrant.
Isn’t it true that Interpol would only act unilaterally in the US if for some odd reason the US didn’t go after an internationally-sought criminal? I can only think of one hypothetical general case where Interpol might act in the US without our government’s full cooperation, and that might be a case like that of Posada Carrilles.
in response to temptingfate @30
Well said, there are intrinsically grounds for worry in any grant of powers.
But I am coming from a frustrated community that worked very hard during the 2003 to 2007 time period to find some legal avenue of attack on the torture going on all over the world at the behest of the US government. It was an educational experience to find that Europe was light-years ahead of us in human rights etc. and that the US had not only tried to legally insulate itself from the requirements of the international conventions it had signed, but was active in trying to expand the zone of its lawlessness, for example the infamous Bush era BIA’s
http://www.amicc.org/usinfo/administration_policy_BIAs.html
The picture emerged that the source of the original “sovereigntists” opposition was they were deeply fearful of social/economic liberalization in this country and wanted to cut off any way for the legal power of international tribunals to aid in the liberalization of our domestic scene.
Hermit Kingdom America! That’s overstated, but some truth to it nonetheless.
“….using American law enforcement personnel acting on behalf of the U.N. via Interpol beyond the control of the U.S. Constitution is obviously menacing.
As the Canada Free Press pointed out:
According to Interpol’s Article 2, Interpol is looking for “new opportunities” to expand its operations within the UN. In other words, Interpol is to be the police eyes and ears of the UN worldwide.”
http://www.examiner.com/x-27672-Portland-Political-Buzz-Examiner~y2010m1d2-INTERPOL-story-heats-up
WHERE is the accountability should Interpol decide to “turn” on the US?
There are no safety valves-all immunities have been provided with no apparent consequences or provisions for such a situation,whatsoever,apparently.
You have worthy goals. My concerns, as is fairly obvious, are around how Interpol with this new usefulness to American agencies will be able to avoid being subverted to other uses. The lack of access to decision making processes and the names of the accusers make this opacity a fairly serious weapon if used inappropriately. Keep some of the protections, as needed, while opening the entire process to oversight and the chances of abuse diminish to a more acceptable level.
Ooh, a column by World o’ Crap pal Allan Erickson, which in turn links to Clownhall.
Dude, your black helicopter is waiting..
Wingnut logic: unless we can sue Interpol is US District Court, we’re unprotected. Boy, is that more juvenile than it is dumb, or just ignint?
in response to BillWalker @41
Yes, I agree. But all government, all law, is precisely a grant of powers and if you take a libertarian position all such grants are suspect. Our pressing problem of the last eight years has not been the lawlessness of individuals, but the lawlessness of state actors. To curb state lawlessness is the entire point of trying to erect restraining frameworks of international law.
During the Bush II years when the administration was using the legal cover of their captive OLC/DOJ to fight off the force JAGs and everybody else in continuing their “harsh interrogation” practices, I for one, wished devoutly that some interpol type force could take the responsible parties into custody!!
Very unAmerican of me.
Uhh…am I to understand that ya’ll poo-pooing this really DIG “diplomatic immunity” for law enforcement peeps who happen to NOT be US law enforcement? What, precisly, is erroneous or “wrong” about the questions asked in the linked-to article? I personally really DO want to know if this means that INTERPOL cops can enter someone’s home without a warrant or detain someone for questioning in violation of constitutional protections. Basically, I just want full clarification of what “diplomatic immunity” means. What sort of actions on INTERPOL’s part are now “immune” from any US laws and niceties like, oh, THE CONSTITUTION? What are their restrictions? Are there any?
C’mon, this sounds like a really nice means of circumventing constitutional rights by our OWN government too. Consider: it USED to be that the US government had to have probable cause and a warrant to spy on Americans, and to a certain pathetically weakened extent, this actually still holds true BUT…there is a nice escape clause here. The US government can simply request that the British (or other) spooks spy on Americans right here, listen in and collect anything they can get their hands on and NOT be violating legal and constitutional protections. Thus, the US government uses foreign agencies to spy on Americans and these foreign government can use the US to spy on their own citizens – all nice and cozy and in violation of the intent of the law, just not the words. Is this latest just another “tool” that the US government can now use to dick with American citizens without normal legal niceties?
What are the DETAILS of this immunity agreement, that is all I want to know.
Guilt by association isn’t proof. Even where it might be the correct conclusion is still doesn’t prove that the issue should not be taken seriously. Every once in a while people we disagree with could still have valid concerns that need to be voiced.
So everybody, if this decision was made quietly by the Obama Administration, and no explanation is forthcoming, is it not necessary to speculate as to the motive behind this change?
What are some possible motives behind this move?
Do you not think that the lack of transparency just might not turn Interpol into a repository of documents that our government does NOT want its citizens to have access to?
Including info from “harsh interrogation “practices of the Bush years,too?
An Alex Jones documentary? Didn’t you read the title of Tbogg’s post?
Jesus Christ. When did my blog become a magnet for the black helicopter crowd?
Read the fucking NY Times article and quit citing articles coming from Richard Anschutz’s Examiner bullshit Neo-Moonie Times.
I mean, really? Got anything from NewsMax you want to share with us?
I was just about to ask the same question – is this Opposite Day and nobody told us?
That is a worrisome possibility itself.
As far as I’m concerned, NO agency operating within the USA should be beyond FOIA. FOIA needs to be EXPANDED, not limited further. Hell, it should apply to private corporations too – those that collect and use personal information.
You have obviously researched the issue at hand in great depth…
ALL the way from A to B,I’d say.
Agreed Praedor.
Seminal had a piece on this also.
Some good info there.
So TBogg, what’s your theory of the motive behind this move? I’m guessing you don’t have one and are intellectually shallow.
Prove me wrong and come up with a theory, not just links to disgruntled Bushtards.
Amen, brother, amen.
I’ll bet the Administration switched paper clip suppliers in mid-December as well. This no doubt bespeaks a hidden conspiracy of unimaginable proportions.
These comments remind me of the notorious Alex Rawls Crescent of Doom post on my old blog, but with the crazy spread out amongst multiple people.
Look! Over there! The Da Vinci Code! Go! Run!
OK, I did find the link mentioned above to the NYTimes article. It does sound totally innocuous but then I have to ask: why is full diplomatic immunity required at all given what INTERPOL actually refers to as per the article? What possible actions could such a “minor” organization take that would justify the need for full diplomatic immunity?
Hell, I really hate diplomatic immunity in general, and believe it should be limited (so that it doesn’t provide for full “get out of jail free” protections for rapists, murderers, torturers, and the like).
So, really, given that this really does seem to be much ado about nothing, I am curious as to why diplomatic immunity was even required to be extended?
Beyond that, hell, I’d be ecstatic if this actually meant that Yoo, Cheney, Bush, Rice, Rumsfeld, etc, etc, could be arrested on INTERPOL sayso because Europe tends to be better about actually obeying the law and their legal obligations as per various treaties. But I am sad to see that this in no way makes it easier for moral and ethical European law enforcement to do what the US refuses to do. So it is just a big waste of time and minor effort on Obama-hater-of-the-Constitution-and-lover-of-torture-and-rendition-and-war.
In response to the question about the interpol kidnapping domestics: the Obama Administration is on the record that it will not allow the ICC to try US citizens, a position indistinguishable from the Bush Administration’s.
There is a huge can of worms (primarily political) in allowing one of our nationals to get carted off to a foreign tribunal..witness the Servicemen Protection Act, etc. But if domestic courts will not and cannot do their jobs, what is our recourse?
Anyway, even though we are on speaking terms with the ICC again under Obama, we aren’t going to allow them to have any substantive jurisdiction:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/16/AR2009111603662.html
In regard to the opacity brought up by the FOIA immunity: that is probably there to forestall a flood of FOIA requests that the DOJ doesn’t want to entertain… It troubles me too.
I can’t speak for our esteemed host, but my personal theory (which I call “Theory A”) is that the administration did this strictly to rile up you and the rest of the Alex Jones crowd. This would lead to high blood pressure and other ailments, probably not covered by your insurance, which then will lead you to support the Obama health care plan.
You’re right, Bill.
I give up.
Secret Interpol ninjas are coming to your house tonight to steal the pink flamingos from your front yard and sell them to the Masons. You should get some sleep now so that you can stand guard.
Eternal vigilance is the price of an adorable front lawn tableau.
Now Bill, you know damn well you can’t prove a negative, so that’s a cheap rhetorical hack on your part.
I expect it’s (as noted earlier in the thread) a move to keep one of the international information warehouses out of FOIA range, if that were needed. Probably a prerequisite for getting a new data source for somebody in the loop. We almost certainly got some concession from the other party (probably access to that data source the U.S. had been excluded from because the Bush administration consistently sacrificed operational security for PR opportunities).
Which would STILL leave you uncovered…or subject to MASSIVE premium hikes, co-pay hikes, and deductible hikes.
It just wouldn’t work as a means of gaining support for a totally broken and debunked “reform” package as is the Obama plan.
Due to my belated reading of the NYTimes article it really isn’t all that but NOTE TO AUTHOR: you REALLY should have provided a LITTLE explanation as to why the conspiracy claim was bogus rather than to just short-quote the big govmn’t site and NOT quote the NYTimes article AT ALL. Hell, PARAPHRASE if you must but don’t just leave it hanging like a dingleberry.
On that note, I am REALLY opposed to the FOIA carve-out. FOIA EXPANSION NOT MORE CONTRACTION.
Intellectually shallow it is.
What do you think of John Yoo approving of Obama as a continuation of Bush on Executive powers?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/31/john-yoo-obama-is-a-conti_n_408441.html
Don’t hurt your brain.
Edmund Burke was a liberal who became appalled by the excesses of the French Revolution.
To equate his liberalism with contemporary “conservatism” is mistaken.
Conservatives are about one thing and one thing only, tribal ascendancy.
I’m tired of bloggers crying that “the media” doesn’t cover a story. Bmaz and I and others discussed this executive order in an EW article more than a week ago. Catch up, people. *g*
This EO, on its face, poses no novel or material questions of sovereignty. That’s paranoid hype by bloggers with nothing else to do over the holidays.
What this EO does is extend to Interpol the same rights and privileges already granted to states and other international organizations in which we participate. They would have been extended 25 years ago, but for Reagan and Thurmond. Clinton made a small dent in our reservations 15 years ago and Obama has rescinded the reservations completely. What that does is free Interpol’s offices and personnel from search and seizure and from income, personal and property taxes.
Interpol is an interstate rather than international organization. In 2005, it had fewer than 600 staff, who coordinated policing efforts by its 183 member countries. Not taxing a small office building in DC, not taxing a foreign bureaucrat’s $150,000 salary, and not stopping her at the border to check her bags, is not the stuff of global conspiracies. Teenage Wolverines in Colorado won’t need to practice their dirty dancing while defending the US of A from parachuting cops coordinating searches for international fugitives, tax evaders, racketeers and drug lords.
If these hyperbolic bloggers want to complain about a loss of civil rights that threatens their security and privacy, they should complain to Barack Obama for institutionalizing George Bush and Congress’ shredding of the Fourth Amendment.
Another meme from these digital commentators is that Interpol might have “the goods” on Mr. Obama or someone else here and use them to blackmail. If those goods are to be had, whomever has them won’t need to commercialize or hide them through Interpol. It or its government will use them in the existing inter-governmental negotiations that go on 24/7.
Get a grip. Read FDL.
Thanks for that pithy rejoinder to faux intellectuals like David Brooks, who peddle Burke’s conservatism as if it were their own. If anything, Burke would object to their anti-constitutionalism as dangerously radical, too.
The removal of these reservations does not empower a supra-policing organization to operate here as if it were a JSOC team kidnapping people willy nilly across the world. For that, you’d have to look in your own back yard.
Shredding the Fourth Amendment, FOIA and open government standards does that much more effectively. This is a tempest in a teapot.
Have you read any of the comments about this over at the Seminal?
in response to earlofhuntingon @75.
thank you for your voice of sanity, the offending section was something put in the Federal Register back in the Truman administration:
c) Property and assets of international organizations, wherever located and by whomsoever held, shall be immune from search, unless such immunity be expressly waived, and from confiscation. The archives of international organizations shall be inviolable.
pretty standard boilerplate; there were at least 50 organizations this was applied to.
Earl, I defer to your superior knowledge of tea and teapots.
Oolong or Darjeeling,today?
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I respectfully disagree at it’s insignificance.
like TBogg, to me the real story of this EO is not the text or intent, but the reaction of our domestic right wing to it. I am amazed at all the “another civil war coming” talk emanating from the discontents
Gitcheegumee
There is a special gift for you in the new thread above.
I read the article at the *** link ***
and from what I can tell, it looks like INTERPOL is as scary as a bunch of telephone polls that people use to post lost dog signs.
“LOST: Beagle, family pet, REWARD, answers to Buddy”
They don’t DO any policing.
While I agree that much of what is often identified with conservative thought today is motivated by tribalism, that probably doesn’t explain why you contradicted my(?) ideas about Burke since of course I never brought him up.
The motivation for calling oneself a conservative came about because it represented a belief that what is best about the past should be kept and any change in the status quo should be gradual. No one, not even Edmund Burke, created this mindset which occurs in most people’s values to one extent or another depending upon the context. We have generally allowed the word conservative to become interchangeable with reactionary but I prefer the older and more accurate interpretation. Perhaps that is part of my conservative bent.
In any event I don’t propose to speak for Edmund Burke.
sorry to go Frist on ya TBogg, but Mr Groves looks like he’s suffering from Agromegaly – a condition that results in pituitary tumours – which of course would explain a lot
Just curious, could a future administration now use Interpol to kidnap political opponents?
I personally really DO want to know if this means that INTERPOL cops can enter someone’s home without a warrant or detain someone for questioning in violation of constitutional protections.
Damn, people, can’t you READ? Interpol does not have any AGENTS (employees, enforcers, sleuths, detectives, whatever you want to call them) to do any “in the field” police work at all. There are NO PERSONNEL for carrying out kidnappings or entering houses or whatever the hell you (and apparently legions of ignorant screenwriters) imagine they might do. They are just bureaucrats, paper pushers, computer nerds, etc.
Anything Interpol might want to “DO” has to be run through and by the given host country’s police forces. In our case, that’s the FBI. Who are still subject to the 4th Amendment, or as much as Bush left of it.
Just because you are a paranoid does not mean that they are not out to get you. There are far too many people who simply cannot accept randomness in the universe and thus turn to conspiracy theories to create a more satisfying, and less scary, world. This is particularly a problem on the right, for whom mental rigidity is the norm, but there is also plenty on the left (Troofers, anti-vaccine idiots, AIDS denialists or those who think it was a government plot, and the like).
Thanks. Truman was president at the start of the post-war expansion of peaceful interstate cooperation and the growth of international governmental and non-governmental organizations.
The offending exceptions regarding Interpol were added by Reagan, who had many reasons not to want to be too kind a host to non-US law enforcement agencies, who sometimes coordinate their efforts via Interpol. Iran Contra would be a good start in sorting out why, but at least Obama has lifted these petty restraints on a small agency.
To repeat, Interpol is an interface for national law enforcement agencies. It is not the U.N.C.L.E. We have more to be worried about from our government failing to abide by applicable law.
I’ll pass on the bergamot flavoring today. With hyperbolic distractions like this, I may need coffee.
Can you explain what you mean by Interpol being a “foreign power?” Doesn’t that term generally apply to a sovereign nation with a standing army and recognized government? Are you using the term simply to elevate the supposed threat posed by this administrative move or do you actually equate Interpol with a foreign power?
What are some possible motives behind this move?
They want to get you, Bill. You specifically because you Know the Truth. You Know the Truth about the Illuminati, the Trilateral Commission, the Masons, the Fuggers, the second gunman on the grassy knoll, the whole thing, and so they want to get you. They’re coming after you right now. Run Bill, run for your life!
Tee Hee. Now there is a conspiracy you can sink your teeth into!
Wow, first the Acorn Conspiracy to Take Over the Known World, then the Socialist Health Care Commie Plan Including Death Panels, and now this! These intrepid conservabloggers confound us at every turn!!
Tbogg, this is all my fault. It was visitation day at the Home for Wayward Wingnuts and Wolverines, so I instructed the pilot of our black helicopter, Barney Frank, to set down in the yard to see what was going on. Trying to remain undercover, I started a game of chess with BillWalker. Cunningly, he distracted me by attempting to consume the entire set of black pawns, claiming they were Hershey Kisses. As I performed the heimlech for the fifth time, the rest of the inmates made a break for it and stole our helicopter. We have spent the last 24 hours trying to round them up. I have called the jackbooted thugs from the Interpol – Kelly Girl Steno Pool Division for help. We hope to have the situation under control soon.
So Interpol is an interface for national law enforcement agencies. They have a database that collects what information? Of course you can not have too many police organizations keeping data bases. These Interpol nonagents need “immunity” from what?
I recall Hank Paulson also wanted immunity. All the Bushie torturers want the Big I also.
What criminals does Interpol catch? The International Banksters? International weapons dealers? Ha Ha just joking.
@89
There are 188 member countries,and should you wish more info, I suggest you do your own research. It is evident you would summarily reject out of hand whatever I proffered anyway.
My issue is very much like Praedor’s position so eloquently stated upthread.
This President ran on a platform of supplying MORE transparency.
This immunity to Interpol is not in keeping with MORE transparency and accountabilty, but Even Less transparency and accountability.
If that in itself is not troubling to you, then any further commmentary from me would be in vain.
As you say, the comparison doesn’t hold. The World Bank and its staff, including its former head, Paul Wolfowitz, benefit from similar diplomatic provisions. The World Bank has power, Interpol has much less, but neither is a foreign state power. It is a small agent of its state members. If one has concerns about excesses practiced in today’s law enforcement, talk to a principal.
Connect the dots. Climate Crisis. Global governance. Global police force. Save humanity. Obama, Holdren, Noble and Co. How can an American President reconcile upholding the oath while ceding sovereignty?
http://www.examiner.com/x-27672-Portland-Political-Buzz-Examiner~y2010m1d3-Interpol-American-sovereignty-climate-crisis-global-governance
Bill Ayers was the ghostwriter for this.
Check the kerning.
in response to vikingking @97
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode22/usc_sec_22_00000288—-000-notes.html
please scroll down to the list of organizations granted the same privileges and immunities as INTERPOL-
that may reassure you a bit.
Thanks. Puts this issue in perspective. If Interpol or state actors are doing nefarious things, it’s not because of enabled by these grants of limited diplomatic immunity. They enable fuller, more willing cooperation. Only Cheney and Bolton think that’s an inherently bad thing.
I hope somebody mentioned FEMA camps. But if not,
FEMA CAMPS !!!
This is so obviously a pay-off to keep Interpol from releasing the Whitey Tape.
Connect the dots !!!
Yes. Its amazing how the Right has consistently, since the League of Nations tried to keep America insulated from both international laws and anything to do with universal jurisdiction. All it takes is some politician to cry, “loss of sovereignty”. It is like “socialism” and “gay marriage” and “gun control”….emotionalized icons of fear, that arouse knee-jerk reactions. Witness the current kerfuffle over a fairly innocuous EO.
“We shall have World Government, whether or not we like it.
The only question is whether World Government will be achieved
by conquest or consent.”
-James Paul Warburg, son of Paul Warburg (first Fed Chairman) and nephew of Max Warburg (Germany’s central banker).
“In 2002 David Rockefeller authored his autobiography “Memoirs” wherein, on page 405,” Mr. Rockefeller writes: “For more than a century ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents such as my encounter with Castro to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as “internationalists” and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure – one world, if you will. If that’s the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.”"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Rockefeller#Bilderberg.2C_Council_on_Foreign_Relations_and_Trilateral_Commission
Silly international bankers. They’re so powerless and without influence, and surely wouldn’t benefit from a more integrated global government.
@99
Could you please point out the statute that specifically provides all these organizations the same FOIA immunity recently accorded Interpol?
Thank you.
The noise about Interpol is a waste of time. I’m new here. What’s with the Star of David. Is that the favored icon here for neocons, or something else. Pls set me straight. Not something I want to misunderstand. Thx.
in response to gitcheegumee @105
On the link provided @99 you will see a rather large list of organizations that have been added, singly, or in small groups to the original list on the Truman era statute. After each organization name you will see an executive order and/or Federal Register number. Here is how to look up them up: 70 FR 20263 as an example, refers to volume 70 page reference 20263. With that information you go over to the GPO access site and select the retrieve Federal Register link. You then get a search engine that will pull the page reference.
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/fr/retrieve.html
Happy hunting. The FR is an incredible resource for information junkies and there is a whole lot of interesting things in there, each of which worth a blog thread…..
As much as I hate to shit on the lawns of the wonderful crazies here…Interpol has never been subject to FOIA.
It’s not a federal government agency.
I don’t have a tin foil hat, but I’ll get some tinfoil from the cupboard if you so desire.
Look at all that has happened in ten or so years, and then tell me that we live in a democracy. Your will of the people is an illusion, you contribute to people who take it and run. You live in free speech zones, you wring your panties over the latest injustice, dissent is all but gone, rule of law is arbitrary. The money men no longer hide their obscenity. If we are not heading for the dreaded new world order, we are surely headed towards totalitarian governance, and the normal avenues of fighting this have been blown up. If you cannot see this then you are blind, with no wish to see a version of the future that is a distinct possibility.
A couple weeks ago I put up a link about global warming in the hopes of getting feedback, I was hoping for honest feedback because I am somewhat ignorant of all the facts. Instead of getting that, I got a fuck you, literally, and that from some community college professor, who at least could have been more creative in insult. Maybe along the lines of the movie In The Loop. But no, he showed his true capacities, which seem somewhat diminished. And all of you just averted your eyes and let that insult ride.
You do yourselves a great disservice when you close your minds to all but that you wish to believe.
I am neither left nor right because that is all irrelevant bullshit, the party I belong to is the human race. I have absolutely no political agenda, nor any other for that matter. I am just awake, and the monsters are all dressed, and drooling, ready to put you on the spit.
You want to really do something, Take your money out of banks, and put it in local credit unions, very local unaffiliated banks, rip up your credit cards, stop buying things you don’t need, soldiers lay down your weapons and come home, there is no honor in these endeavors, you are doing the terrorists a favor with your great PR . Grow as much of your own food as you can. Trade for things you need, buy second hand clothes. Walk or use public transportation. Stop being cosigners to the madness.
OT but more along the lines I would follow
http://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php
tinfoil removed
So for all these years I’ve been too terrified to burn copies of my movies for no reason whatsoever?
There are days when I wonder if we wouldn’t all be better off if Skynet did take over.
According to the Interpol web page:
General Secretariat – located in Lyon, France, the General Secretariat operates 24 hours a day, 365 days a year and is run by the Secretary General. Officials from more than 80 countries work side-by-side in any of the Organization’s four official languages: Arabic, English, French and Spanish. The Secretariat has seven regional offices across the world; in Argentina, Cameroon, Côte d’Ivoire, El Salvador, Kenya, Thailand and Zimbabwe, along with Special Representatives at the United Nations in New York and at the European Union in Brussels.
So their only presence in the US is at the UN. I don’t think Interpol is subject to the US’s FOIA. But if they send the Black Helicopters for you, we’ll be sure to host a moment of silence.