
Rita Diller is the National Director of American Life League’s Stop Planned Parenthood project, which is to say that Ms. Diller is highly invested in denying healthcare to other women because those women might possibly be caring for their bodies in ways in which Ms. Diller doesn’t approve. As Planned Parenthood celebrates it’s 95th birthday this week, Ms. Diller is getting ladywood over the fact that PP is closing facilities, making it more difficult for women to get the low-cost healthcare at a time when it is desperately needed by everyone. Rita seems particularly proud of the damage she is inflicting upon women in her native Texas:
In Hidalgo County, Texas, Planned Parenthood recently shut down facilities in Rio Grande City, San Carlos, Progreso and Mission, where government funding was providing over 80 percent of its income. The cluster of closures brings to 12 the number of Texas Planned Parenthood facilities that have either shut down or are scheduled to be shut down since the state legislature cut at least $58 million from the abortion giant over the next two years. In addition, in March, Planned Parenthood of Central Texas closed the only two facilities it operates outside of Waco-one in Groesbeck and one in Marlin.
As Andrea Grimes pointed out, this turned out to be awesome news for her own health needs:
…I sat in front of Rep. Flynn, in his Austin office next to his model airplanes and elect-Dan-Flynn gum, and told him how I’d lost my job and my health insurance and needed regular, affordable pap smears to keep an eye on my pre-cancerous cervical dysplasia. I told him Planned Parenthood could provide low-cost paps, breast exams and contraceptives to keep me healthy despite my lack of insurance, and I believed they should continue to be funded by government family planning dollars. He scoffed, waving around a handful of papers—spreadsheets and maps, it looked like—and told me that Planned Parenthood was nothing but a tax-evading abortion machine (he knew because he used to be a bank examiner and had heard some things from some people) and there were so many other options besides Planned Parenthood in Texas. I should and could go to one of those, he told me, so we could spread some of the wealth around to these smaller providers. It would be very easy, he said.
[...]
…I thought, I’ll play this game. If it turns out I was wrong—and I really thought maybe I could be, because how could it seriously happen that “pro-life” Texans didn’t want me to get cancer screenings?—I would be the first to admit that you can take Planned Parenthood out of the equation and still find easily accessible, low-cost reproductive health care in a sprawling metropolitan area like Dallas. But I wasn’t wrong. I was, maddeningly, right. Considering the rate at which conservatives are defunding family planning in my state, and for that matter, across the country, I’m very sorry about that. All of this is an ideological, not fiscally conservative, battle. After all, family planning saves taxpayers $4 for every $1 spent. But I was trying to work around family planning dollars, since conservatives seem to think they go straight to gleeful baby-killing cocktail hours, and stick with straight-up FQHC’s. If they’re lucky, Dallas women will be told what I was told: an appointment at an anti-choicer-approved FQHC might be available in May if I called back in three weeks—at a location two cities away and five miles from the closest bus stop.
Or women can call Planned Parenthood, like I did, at lunch time on a Friday, and be told that an afternoon appointment including a full pelvic and breast exam is available that same day for about $100 at a location a few yards from a major public transportation hub that I could easily reach in a half-hour or so.
Of course, Ms Diller would tell you that all Planned Parenthood does all the live-long day is abort, abort, abort, nothing but abortion … except not:
Planned Parenthood calculates the numbers by services provided, rather than dollars spent. In a fact sheet last updated in March 2011, the group lists the following breakdown of its services:
Contraception (including reversible contraception, emergency contraception, vasectomies and tubal sterilizations): 4,009,549 services
Sexually transmitted infections testing and treatment: 3,955,916 services
Cancer screening and prevention: 1,830,811 services
Other women’s health services (including pregnancy tests and prenatal care): 1,178,369 services
Abortions: 332,278 procedures
Miscellaneous (including primary care and adoption referrals): 76,977
Total services: 11,383,900
By this tally, abortions accounted for just under 3 percent of the procedures Planned Parenthood provided in 2009, which is the most recent year for which the group is reporting statistics.
And you would think that Ms. Diller would would not have a problem with Planned Parenthood dispensing contraceptives because it might prevent some of those abortions, right? Well no.
ELAINE TYLER MAY planned the release of her new book in celebration of the 50th anniversary of FDA approval of the birth control pill to coincide with Mother’s Day 2010, and her article (“How the pill changed motherhood,” Opinion, May 9) connected the pill with better mothering.
The truth is, the pill kills families, the pill kills women, the pill kills babies and the pill kills the environment.
Since the pill was approved as a contraceptive in 1960 by the FDA, the institution of marriage has become endangered. The number of unmarried cohabitating couples has increased tenfold, from 439,000 to 4.2 million. Divorce rates have soared. Births to unmarried women have tripled. Some 1.3 million children are born out of wedlock each year.
May rightly points out that women in the workplace are left with very little time to care for their children. In 1960, 70 percent of moms of childbearing age stayed home and 30 percent worked outside the home. Following the introduction of the pill, women flocked into the workplace.
Today, the numbers are reversed, with 30 percent staying home and 70 percent working outside the home. Many mothers who want to stay home with their children are forced into the workplace to make ends meet in a society that has built its economy around the two-paycheck family, thanks largely to the pill.
Because the pill means fewer children soooo …. families need more money to afford to … not have children whom they won’t need to feed, clothe, and shelter which is …. expensive. Or something.
And Rita Diller has dedicated her life to the children
Rita has more than 26 years experience across the spectrum of pro-life work, including 12 years as Respect Life Director for the Diocese of Amarillo, working closely with Bishop John Yanta.
Oooo, look, here’s Rita (on the left and there’s Bishop John Yanta stuck in the middle)
This Bishop John Yanta:
Some parishioners vented their displeasure at meetings with Bishop Yanta. Others expressed their anger in less public ways, one longtime diocesan member said.
“Now that this has all come out, there’s a lot of people that are really upset about it because the bishop did know, and nothing was done about it, and children were exposed to these priests,” said Cris Parra of Amarillo, a music director at several parishes.
“They are just not happy campers about it,” Ms. Parra said.
Bishop Yanta acknowledged that people’s faith in the church has been shaken. But he predicted that any bitterness would not linger.
“There’s something about us Catholics,” he said. “We’ve been through everything through the last 20 centuries. When we have to suffer, it seems that we get recommitted, more committed than ever.”
Bishop Yanta, 70, offered no apologies for his secretiveness, saying he believed it was in line with dictates of church law that require bishops to protect the reputations of priests as well as ensuring due process.
“The communication of the truth is not a universal right,” he said.
[...]
Bishop Matthiesen, who gave way to Bishop Yanta in 1997 after leading the Amarillo Diocese for 17 years, said he regretted his lack of candor about six priests he hired from treatment programs in New Mexico and Maryland between 1988 and 1995.
But he has had no change of heart about putting the priests back into parish work.“I personally have not regretted taking them,” Bishop Matthiesen said.
[...]
Bishop Yanta said he heard about the “program priests” hired by Bishop Matthiesen before he was installed in Amarillo in March 1997. He had previously been auxiliary bishop in the San Antonio Archdiocese.
“I didn’t get a good night’s sleep here for several months,” Bishop Yanta said, “because my Number 1 preoccupation was just to make sure that we were providing [the priests] with the very best care and to protect the children and the youth of the diocese.”
After consulting with a variety of experts, he said, he decided to keep the priests on the job with even stricter requirements for their after-care.
Bishop Yanta said his decision was based on advice that priests might accuse him of violating their due process or reputational rights guaranteed under the canon laws of the Roman Catholic Church.
“They’ll take you to Rome at the drop of a hat, as we say.”
[...]
Bishop Yanta, a staunch opponent of abortion rights who was convicted in 1993 for trespassing at a San Antonio women’s clinic, was one of a handful of bishops who voted against the sexual abuse policy adopted in Dallas.
“I was for the charter in principle, definitely,” he said. “But I thought we should have come up with something a little more flexible for those cases of a long distant past.”
Nonetheless, he said, he did not wait for the meeting of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops in Dallas to begin calling in “program priests” to discuss their future.
Priests and busybodies like Rita Diller: if they’re not in your uterus, they’re in your kids.
Bless their hearts…




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Sadly on topic, one of the most nauseating things I’ve ever read on the Internet (or elsewhere) from former Arkansas Jr. Miss Tina Korbe.
Can’t get much more “pro-life.”
Tina Korbe is a nitwit who would rip the fetus out of her own body if you dangled a Fox news contract in front of her face that stipulated she couldn’t get pregnant and miss work.
There are perfectly good theocracies like Iran and Saudi Arabia out there where gays and adulterous sluts are stoned to death. Not sure why they don’t move where they’d be happier.
If I’m not mistaken, well before his marriage issues, Henry VIII first drew blood with Rome when he insisted priests should be tried in (his) courts for murder, rape, robbery, etc. He did so because everybody was fed up with the church courts & canon law letting the priests go free.
Basically, the problem today is the same. Catholic clergy do not consider themselves subject to law outside of Church canon law.
Not sure why they don’t move where they’d be happier.
Not quite the same investment opportunities.
“‘They are just not happy campers about it,’ Ms. Parra said.”
Just not happy campers about it? Can someone tell me what the fuck is happening to the English language?
Yeah, people are “just not happy campers” about the fact that children have been serially raped and sexually abused.
Think of it this way:
Thats 332,278 potential Steve Jobs that could have put this country well on the way to recovery.
(Or Jeffrey Dahmers. I gets confused).
It looks like Planned Parenthood isn’t the only one making money off the “abortion industry.” I wonder how all the little Catholics, donating money soaked with tears for the Holy Fetus, realize that they’re paying for some women’s upwardly mobile lifestyle.
Also, 99% of all women have taken birth control. That’s a lot of Pill-popping Catholics. These nutters might find it harder to hit up the rubes for donations after they get rid of abortion.
“There’s something about us Catholics,” he said. “We’ve been through everything through the last 20 centuries. When
wewomen have to suffer, it seems that we get recommitted, more committed than ever.”There, fixed it for him and gave him & Diller and the rest of the cult a shorter: your pain is our gain.
I’m sure you know, just as we all do, that their goal isn’t to get rid of abortion. The industry of which you speak is not about providing a service. It’s about raking in the cash in the name of something they call life (which, again as we know, is anything but).
And they sure don’t want to chop down that money tree.
Bugger Killer Diller & Company!
I’ve begun calling it “Misogyny Chic”; the creep of womon hating BS that’s going on in Taliban America.
It’s cool to cut wimmin down now. i’m even finding it in my favorite author’s books.
It’s insidious
Based on those numbers of services provided, it seems like PP hardly does any abortions at all. Why don’t they just stop that one procedure, then they can stay open, take all the government money and provide all those cheap health services for women?
They could even open and UnPlanned Paranthood next door and do the abortions there without government funding.
We can add poor people to the list of things Diller despises. Hidalgo County is part of one of the poorest regions in the US, the Rio Grande Valley, and about a third of its residents live below the poverty line.
Diller is after sexual control and repression of others. Often those most sexually repressed themselves seem to enjoy nothing so much as sexually repressing others.
When one of these sacks of protoplasm passing for a human being can explain to me why, if abortion is this uber-evil thing, the Bush Administration and the Republican-controlled Congress didn’t make it illegal (and strip the Supreme Court of jurisdiction over the matter) when they were in charge for 4 flippin’ years, then I’ll listen.
Why don’t you call Laura Ingraham? Im sure you 2 can talk and come up with something. IIRC in her very rude and snarky fashion she believes that abortion is about all PP is for…Far be it from me to understand why what happens to women and their bodies, that is, letting women make their own choices, is of such electric interest to so many unrelated people (meddlers) I will never know.
“ladywood”
Wiping tea off the monitor.
If Bishop Yanta really believed in God, he resign, put on a hairshirt and start working at the local hospice. The Deity will not be kind to this smug, self-satisfied, son of a bitch.
And Diller… obviously it’s never entered her head to count the number of women she’ll be killing. But then women don’t count.
I don’t think that addressed my question.
As I said, they do many other good things. Why not separate the centers into those that can receive government funding, and those that can’t?
They could even open and UnPlanned Paranthood next door and do the abortions there without government funding.
Oh, look, you’re lying. PPFA doesn’t use government funding for abortions.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/michaeltomasky/2011/apr/07/congress-republicans-government-shutdown-abortion-planned-parenthood
Go fuck the fuck off.
Took the liberty of making a small edit.
Opinion-making as to **contraception** per se is
preposterously unavoidable and easy.
As one who, originally annoyed and insulted by hypocritical
gay master learner-teachers of fear in the business of transfering
fear so as to make a world afraid of being demonized, the
astounding rejection of screaming-obvious experimental and
observational science, and the paranoid imposition of
behavior preferences du jour, I have arrived at an East-West
science – morality – history gradient based theory that implies
early traditions are based on a conveyed lesson in s – m – h,
one which we must pass so as to not perish.
(undoubtedly places me in suspicious light spam-wise with
FDL; BUT: I cannot make the following point absent saying the
above, and, of course, I will not include my own website.)
Just now we seem to have the math / science to consider the above
meaningfully. In one of those respects, the issue of contraception
would, by my theory, be a no-brainer (actually any issue is obviously
a stupid non-starter even absent my having been born, but my theory’s
application, I’m guessing, will arouse academic interest on different
levels.)
In recent years upwards of thousands of messenger RNA types have been
discovered. It has most recently been found to be the case, much a
consequence of the RNA work, that “Lamarckianism” (community behaviors,
environmental pressures) can bit by bit induce first RNA, then DNA changes
WHICH ENDURE TO THE NEXT HUMAN GENERATION (a concept previously presumed
preposterous.)
Whether it’s billionaires not wanting to give up their wealth to everyone
else by way of their short bets (credit derivatives) on the recent
mortgage Ponzi scheme (otherwise that would have been a repeat of
ultra wealthy persons, having run out of creditworthy middle class borrowers, pushing debt onto uncreditworthy borrowers) or seeming references to ideas of “transformation,” traditional ideas are
more often resonating in very tangible ways.
There are toddlers everywhere behaving very advanced for their ages.
I think those successfully taking to heart from experience that is consistent with a world passing a test in science, morality and history, or having intuited healthful behavior, are passing on genetics reflecting that.
MAIN POINT BEING: THE UNWANTED CHILD IS LEAST LIKELY TO TRANSFORM POSITIVELY.
Whereas gays, I would add, are utterly optimally occurring ordinarily,
both DEVELOPMENTALLY and GENETICALLY, with science and a world of history oddly simultaneously mutually proving each other, a process self-produced small subset of them have moved history through scapegoating of first their own, then Jews, then nations were integrated (scapegoating perfecly
legitimate immigrants.) Gays aid the numerical genetic advantage OF THE GROUP. They are a force for positive transformation. Banning contraception would be a force for returning to the jungle.
@ alan 1tx- divide and conquer works great! Make sure those ‘UnPlanned Parenthood’ clinics are far enough away from Planned Parenthood buildings so the protest mobs can be unfettered and still not interefere with the ‘good’ health services. Added plus- shrapnel from the bomb blasts won’t damage other valuable real estate and minimize ‘innocent’ deaths. Freedom? So long as conditions are imposed of free choice, there is no freedom of choice.
The pervo-priest rape & pillage gang standing behind the pope’s law (aka catholic sharia) smacks of a First Amendment violation. Why would the religious laws override the actual law of the land?
Sounds like they’ve already taken my advice. BTW, not knowing something doesn’t equal lying. But then your adieu indicates what type of person you are.
Have a nice day.
Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Use facts, not opinion, to support your argument next time. Pleading ignorance doesn’t help your argument. Oh, and your delusions of grandeur aren’t helping either.
And why not go all in? Separate all of PPFA’s services into many little buildings so we can make sure where the taxpayer money goes. Ms. Grimes can just google the directions for all the centers all over town for the services she requires.
Hopefully, mass transit funds haven’t been cut.
You have yourself a nice day, too.
Bang! Especially re your main point. Thanks.
“Why would the religious laws override the actual law of the land?”
This is perhaps allowed because religion is the primary institution by which the populace is controlled through fear, sexual repression and thoughtless deference to authority. Religion helps provide the social and psychological control mechanisms that are useful to any state. They might maintain their tax exempt status due to this service that they provide.
BTW, not knowing something doesn’t equal lying.
The end result, of course, is the same. The ignorance and lies are destroying the social fabric of this country.
Here’s an idea for you “small government”/religious moralists….if you don’t want an abortion, don’t have one. If you don’t want to be gay married, don’t get gay married. Leave the moral judging to your mythical God and the mythical Judgement Day. Stop trying to put government in the bedrooms of 200MM consenting adults. Stop trying to make government a medical consultant between Doctors and women.
Wait, that sounds just like the Spanish Inqui..
“NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!”
Quite so. And, as we’ve seen under Bush and Obama with the ridiculous “faith-based initiatives” crap, the cults will actually receive tax-payer subsidies in addition to their undeserved tax-exempt status. That we as a nation accept that speaks volumes about our collective masochistic streak (“here, dear Catholics, take a few million of our hard-earned dollars; go, put them to good use abusing and indoctrinating our kids, denigrating our women, and perpetuating your hateful and delusional myths and superstitions while you dish out a few cups of soup to the homeless…”).
“Our chief weapon is surprise…surprise and fear…fear and surprise…. Our two weapons are fear and surprise…and ruthless efficiency…. Our three weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency…”
Since we are talking about a “chunk” of medical services that are for women…and I am not a Dr., so I am not about to evaluate or rec. any particular service….why would some particular, likely necessary service that is only relevant for women be disallowed from Gov’t funding?
Sorta like being bombarded with Viagra ads? Can we stop that, also? Well, the answer is no in a world of the free market, free ideas, and sometimes available medical services paid for by the gov. Your pick & choose test seems somehow lacking.
“That we as a nation accept that speaks volumes about our collective masochistic streak . . .”
As well as our preference for superstition and reliance on myth over knowledge and reason–and not just the superstition inherent to religion but the superstition that imagines that faith-based initiatives will succeed better than rational solutions. It also reveals a strong and pervasive fascist predilection among the majority of the citizenry.
As it turns out, I wasn’t making an argument at all, just asking a question.
I assume the reason Planned Parenthood calculates the numbers by services provided, rather than dollars spent (as stated above), is so they can claim that that particular service is only a tiny portion of what they’re about.
If they do so much good (low-cost paps, breast exams and contraceptives to keep women healthy), and so few abortions, why not focus on the former, rather than completely close down all the clinics as listed above?
Hopefully restating the original question this way won’t throw anyone into a vulgarity laced rage.
I won’t give you a tirade. I will point out that even the PP clinics that don’t do abortion (such as the one closest to where I live) are still targeted for pickets, disruption and closure by the moral authoritarians and bible-thumpers that pass through.
It doesn’t matter that the Hyde Amendment exists. To these busybodies, if they let Planned Parenthood exist in any way, shape or form it perpetuates “killing teh babiez!1!”.
Also some of PP’s funding comes from state coffers as well, and the Texas State Legislature took a cleaver to the health and human services budget to the tune of $61 million dollars. Again, you can thank the “pro-life” crowd for that one.
I think the answer may have been implied in my previous note: Why should any service that may be essential for some women be disallowed? Prejudice, narrow-mindedness, even a religious tenet are not to be arbitrarily enforced, recognized, etc. Remember when Blacks were excluded from some restrooms….Why indulge a prejudice? Lots in the south would have been perfectly happy with that outcome.
Yes, as they start closing those clinics along the border. I do wonder how one can draw a contrast to explore what it means that these are exclusively services for women? A very big factor, of course, for the barefoot & pregnant crowd.
A very bright Law Professor told me that one of the swaying factors in the Roe decision was the image of tragic, bloody back street abortions….that may again be the future.
So by her own definition of what she is, that makes her a Slave Trader and probable slave owner. This country passed laws PROHIBITING the SLAVE TRADE and she should be prosecuted under those laws.
Oooo. Oooo. I can answer this one!
Because abortion is legal and PP shouldn’t have to in order to satisfy the creepy obsessions of the panty sniffers.
I’m not a doctor either. I’m not even anti-abortion, or pro-life or whatever. You (and a lot of the passionate people here) keep implying that anti-abortion is anti-women. Certainly you’ve heard that some people believe life begins at conception, and don’t want government funds used to end an innocent life. Spotts above admits, for some it’s all about “killing teh babiez”.
Maybe everyone who makes that claim is anti-woman, including the woman above, I don’t know. I just asked if PP helps women 99% of the time and does abortions 1% of the time, why would they decide to close down rather than give up providing that 1% service?
And I ask again why should it be legally sanctioned to cater to a religious belief (we are not a theocracy) or other preference, prejudice, whatever you want to call it…..See 40, but you seem not “to get it”. And please do not assume or impute what you assume about my beliefs….
You [...] keep implying that anti-abortion is anti-women.” True, dat. Most of the pregnant men I’ve ever met have just carried their child to term and then sold it to the highest bidder.
Srsly… you’ve heard that some people believe life begins at conception” — yeah, other people believe in reincarnation, others that life begins when a dust bunny is touched by His Noodly Appendage. Who the fuck cares? What matters as far as PP’s activities goes is what is legal. They can’t change their business model to accommodate every damn cult out there, and since abortion is a legitimate part of of, you know, “Planned Parenthood” it’d be kinda ridiculous for them to pretend otherwise to placate cynical politicians pandering to hateful morons like Rita Diller.
Religious belief?
I don’t think you have to be religious to believe that.
Some people will argue that the “process” begins at conception, not life, but everyone knows what that leads to.
I am sorry you can’t read; you sooo missed my comment. So long, farewell….
The legal aspect has been mentioned. And if being legal is what’s important, that’s fine.
But then the state moves the goal post and passes a law that says, “abortion is legal, but it is illegal for any organization to accept government funds if they perform abortions.”
Now PP’s activities (accepting government funds) are not legal. So the legal aspect probably isn’t so important now.
Okay, I’ll try. I’m a woman. It’s none of your damned business whether I have an abortion or not. Your or anyone else’s religious beliefs have nothing to do with me and my body. It doesn’t matter that ‘some people’ believe life begins at conception. Goody, then don’t have an abortion. Got it? Die, if you must, to keep your beliefs, but you have no business in my body. Supreme Court ruled that abortion is legal. The Hyde amendment is drives me nuts, too, but there it is.
The idea that the the Catholic church deigns to preach moral rectitude to the rest of us is so maddening and insane that my teeth gnash whenever I read stuff like this.
Bye Bev.
It’s probably that my level of passion on the subject doesn’t match yours, rather than my ability to read.
@outrageoftheday
You don’t have to worry about me. I wouldn’t even stand on the sidewalk in front of a church holding a sign.
I closing, everyone please note that none of my posts were against you having an abortion. Just wondering why PP would decide to close down rather than change 1% of their service and I think I now know the answer. “Cause it’s none of my damn business.”
No, I get your point. They can stay “legal” if they stop doing what is arbitrarily deemed illegal by the state or the feds. But as we see time again with Diller and her like-minded friends in the cults is that they really want full and unfettered reproductive control over women — “all your uterii are belong to us” and all that. So, if PP start to slice and dice their full-spectrum services then they’ve voluntarily taken the first step towards their closure. You really think Diller & the Sex Police would be satisfied if PP took that step? Of course not. They’d chalk it up as a win, then go after the next piece — the pill, the condoms, the vasectomies — whatever. Sure, PP could end up simply as another provider of pap smears and friendly pats on the back, but then again, that would have nothing to do with “Planned Parenthood”, it’d be a fraction of the services that women deserve and expect if you don’t believe in the middle-age wet dream that festers in the mind of Rita Diller.
So, what you’re really suggesting is: “shit, if only PP would go out of business, they’d be set to receive federal funding for life.” And I don’t think that works for PP; I don’t think it works for us as a civilized society struggling NOT to become a theocracy.
Exactly, it’s none of your damn business. It is, however, the business of a woman and her doctor and until you are prepared to have the rest of decide what YOU and your doctor can discuss about your health you need to have a coke and a smile and shut the fuck up.
PPFA provides medical services for women and there is a large chunk of god-bothering fuckwits who believe their particular brand of theological fuckwittery should be the guide for how the rest of us live our lives. Notice they don’t protest a man getting his tubes tied, or purchasing condoms or getting some pills to help the boner rise from the dead.
As Thing points out above, these folks don’t give a flying fuck about abortion, life or the quality of a life, they want to control your body and what you want to do with it. I guaran-fucking-tee you when they go after boner pills these fucking fake morality police will be shut down faster than a Rick Santorum presidential campaign run, complete with the frothy after-fuck.
Heh.
You have no clue about my passions, so quit imposing, judging, making up…whatever it is you do. You are not a mind reader, I assume.
Because there’s no evidence that that would be good enough, how about. There’s a woman who pickets a womens’ clinic here, that does not do abortions. They do pre-natal, they do pelvics, they do preventative and treatment for STDs, they do cancer screenings. They prescribe birth control, and according to this woman, and she was fairly frothy about it, that is killing babies just as much as abortions are. So she will keep protesting them until they stop prescribing birth control. Since I was annoyed with her for telling me not to kill my baby when I was just going in to get a fucking cyst looked at, I argued with her.
“So what if they only prescribe the pill for medically necessary reasons, since about a third of the women who take the pill do so for reasons that have nothing to do with contraception, but instead involve irregular periods, severe PMS, cysts, and fibroids? Will you stop picketing them then?”
No, she won’t. Because she’s positive my numbers are wrong and also obviously a lot of those women and their doctors are lying about why they take the pill because obviously they could either do something else to solve those problems or just put up with them, “PMS isn’t that big a deal, when I was a girl nobody complained about their PMS, it’s just something for women to feel like victims about.”
Further, they still do other kinds of birth control, and even, she carefully explained to me–twice, because I had to make her go through it again because I couldn’t believe that the incredibly stupid point she was making was the incredibly stupid point she was trying to make–even condoms kill babies. Howzat? Well, you see, if you teach women that they can have sex without getting pregnant–with condoms, for example–they will have sex secure in the belief that they don’t have to get pregnant when they have sex. And when we “disconnect” sex from pregnancy, then women who accidentally or carelessly do get pregnant will feel they are *entitled* to murder their babies.
She was very happy with that point. We should ban everything but abstinence because letting women have sex without the fear of pregnancy is just going to ensure they kill their babies.
So, yeah, she’ll still be there (for years, I’m not kidding, and she was out there last Thanksgiving, for pity’s sake, Thanksgiving day, they weren’t open, it was cold and raining and she was still picketing some bizarre unintended indirect consequence of entitled sluttiness), until they stop distributing condoms, or offering any other kind of birth control.
And you can say she’s just some random crazy woman, I’m pretty sure she is, having spent a while arguing with her, but she’s not the only one who thinks this way, and it would be foolish as hell to allow the people who have already demonstrated an animus towards women making choices about their bodies and if anything a more pronounced propensity for moving the goal posts, to decide what kind of legal and medically necessary services women are allowed to get where.
There is no evidence they will stop with abortion, and plenty they won’t.
Also, from a purely practical standpoint, if you put the abortion doctors and patients in a seperate clinic, they become that much easier to A) shut down with TRAPP laws and B) target with violence. In opposition to a LEGAL MEDICAL PROCEDURE.
So, yeah, you’re getting chewed out by people here, who have heard the “Hey, I’ve got a great idea, why don’t they just give in!” notion from people who may well be considerably more disingenuous than you are.
When you say–even in earnest desire to find a solution–things that lying assholes say to make the targets of their social disapproval look like big unreasonable meanies, you’re going to get some of the “You are not the first person to say this and the last eight who did were sneering while they did so” blowback.
I’m sorry if that seems unreasonable. But this goes into the not-negotiating-with-terrorists category, and before you object remember Eric Rudolph, because “terrorism” is not an exaggeration.
“getting ladywood”….
I think you mean she had a wide-on, doncha??
Wow, you’re good. Thank you for getting to the total irrationality and showing the absurdity that any little step will ever be enough….the woman you are describing sounds a bit like Michelle Bachman, it seems.
Amazing you took the time to explain those details….just Wow.
I knew she was going to be there, I was in pain and inclined to chew on her anyway because I fucking hated her “Your baby deserves life!” sign which she waves at everybody going in or coming out, and I had heard parts of the arguments before.
The condom thing just fucking floored me, though. That is… I can’t even tell you how demented that argument struck me at the time, though I’ve heard versions of it since, and it pretty much did shut me down, so I’m sure she figured she’d won the debate. But you know, “Underpants chicken hemlock cement” isn’t an actual argument either, but it will definitely shut your opponent up long enough for you to declare victory.
Now I just wiggle my fingers at her, both hands, in a gesture she apparently has decided is The Evil Eye. Honestly, it’s the gesture that means “Oh, you’re an adorable kitty, I want to rub your belly” when I use it on my housecats. But it freaks her out, and that’s good enough for me. Apparently, rational debate is not going to help.
Reminds me of ol’wives tale Birthcontrol…Keep you feet in a bucket. Well, that should do something….never mind what. Thanks for the “picture…” Looks like you made yourself her “cause.” Thanks for sharing…;)
Wonder how long it will be before the Fertilized-Eggs-Are-More-Important- Than-Women crowd decides that abortion can be completely eliminated if they simply kill off all the women BEFORE they get pregnant.
The problem is that it takes at least two rational people to have a rational debate!
************
Also, too. Isn’t god a mass-murderer? I hear that about 1/3 of the fertilized eggs (aka proto-amurikans) don’t implant in the uterine wall. Why does god hate babies?
Thank you for a detailed and cogent response describing this larger-than-we-think swathe of population. I come from a very fundie family. Although to my knowledge, none of them go out and picket PP or other clinics, they have *voiced* to me almost exactly what this woman said to you.
There are LOTS of self-righeous women (forget about the males for a moment) out there who feel morally superior and eminently entitled to DICTATE to other women what they should & should not do with their bodies. It is a creeping dis-ease in this nation and filled with a growing number of creeps like the woman you encounter at that clinic.
My family members hasten to inform me similar bunkum such as: yes, yes PP DOES provided *needed* services to poorer women, but why should *I* pay for that??? Stop all fed funding. I don’t want to help anyone less fortunate than me get pap smears & cancer screenings. Screw ‘em! Get a job, ya lazy slackers.
And then there’s the: PP is all very well but it *actively encourages teenagers to go out have sex sex sex all of the time.* PP is the Devil (yes, they really did say that), and Satan is teaching our innocent teenagers that it’s ok to screw around with impunity by teaching them aobut birth control and giving away free condoms (not exaggerating).
And then finally, yes they also get into the birth control is disconnecting women from pregnancy, so it *actively encourages* them to, you know, enjoy their slutty sexuality ‘n stuff.
Yeah, yeah. I’ve heard it all and then some.
Separating out the clinics into a) non-abortion, and b) abortion only will do nothing. NOTHING. Other than aggravate the situation for the “abortion only” clinics by making them even easier targets for the frothing at the mouth fundies who find it completely acceptable to murder living adults… all in Jesus’ name. I cannot state that last sentence strongly enough. These citizens are so morally reprehensible that it’s almost beyond belief, but they are out there, and they are legion, and they are being carefully brainwashed to hold firm to this very twisted and toxic belief system…. as this post indicates.
Thanks,
I may have been asking dumb questions, but it’s nice to get a thought-out profane free response.
People can express themselves anyway they want, but when someone starts out accusing the other side of hating healthy women and children, it sounds about as silly as condums kill babys to the person who hasen’t taken an entrenched side. Please, no more comments to me, I’ve caused enough trouble.
All I can remember is the wingnut District Attorney in Wisconsin who got on TV and threatened any teacher in his county that if they taught any type of sex-education other than abstinence-only, he would charge them with child pornography and contributing to the delinquency of a minor, have them hauled out of their school in handcuffs, and jailed.
alan1tx, I hope you’re still here, at least for a while. This comment is about your question.
FACT: PP provides medical services to women, including abortions.
FACT: PP provides roughly 97% of their services (by their methodology) in non-abortion areas.
FACT: PP already “has a separate organization, with separate staff in separate buildings, all with private funds, to provide abortion services.”
FACT: alan1tx asked, “Why don’t they just stop that one procedure, then they can stay open, take all the government money and provide all those cheap health services for women?”
FACT: Not one single commenter here, including the estimable dsidhe (who can at least address the questioner without profanity or comparing him to Laura Ingraham), has directly and specifically answered the question raised.
I do not claim to know the answer; for all I know, it may be something about their charter, the wishes of Margaret Sanger, obstinancy, fatalism, required paperwork, or the phases of the moon. Obviously, the only people who can honestly and truthfully answer are the powers-that-be at PP.
But, I must say that I am truly surprised and disappointed by the tone (I’ll leave it at that) of way too many of those directing a response to alan1tx, which can best be described politely as vituperative.
Besides the snark and the bassets (and, OK, Shakira’s ass), I come here for the community — people who share a more-or-less common attitude about politics (and life in general) who can also appreciate differences of opinion, correcting, commenting, and snarking when appropriate (e.g., the replies to smoothjazz and nonpartisanliberal). It is really depressing (to me, anyway) to see this blog turn into just another place for screaming and invective directed at those who don’t toe some imaginary party line.
And, if anyone is still listening, I, too, would like to know a real answer to the original question: why not keep the other services and spin off the abortion part?
(And to head off any additional calumny: No, I am not suggesting it is a good idea, nor that it is not indicative of the stupidity and malice of those protesting against PP and/or wishing to withdraw their funding. And, as a person of the male persuasion, I have said before and will say it again, abortions are none of my [nor any other male's] damn business. It is entirely up to the woman to have or not have any procedure that affects only her own body, period, full stop, end of conversation.)
“. . . have a coke and a smile and shut the fuck up.”
Wow. Nice Eddie Murphy reference. :)
The anti-abortion movement has fuck all to do with concern for life. If that was what got their dander up, they would be spending the lion’s share of their time, money and effort adopting unwanted children. They don’t because they don’t give a fuck about other people beyond their need to control them. Their efforts instead have everything to do with controlling women’s bodies. These folks are control addicts, and serious social control begins with an individuals’ sexuality–and in US culture, patriarchal control of individuals’ sexuality.
Unless one has freedom over their own body, they’ve got no kind of freedom at all. Unfortunately, freedom scares the shit out of the anti-abortion folks.
“Why does god hate babies?”
Oh, god doesn’t hate babies. He loves them. Murder is one of his favorite ways of showing his love for people. Hell, murder is the whole reason he had a kid. “These are the mys-ter-ieeees of faaaaaiiiith . . .”
“There are LOTS of self-righeous women . . .”
Perhaps they have internalized patriarchal sexual repression to the point that their only relief is to insist that other women suffer just as well? We see this sort of vengeful, incognizant thing all the time: “Well if I have to put up with something awful, then so does everybody else. I’ll make others pay for my sin because it’s easier than learning to be free.”
“And then there’s the: PP is all very well but it *actively encourages teenagers to go out have sex sex sex all of the time.*”
Ha! Indeed. If only PP promoted such sexual freedom, we’d all be in much better, happier shape.
alan1tx:
Please, no more comments to me, I’ve caused enough trouble.
So, pretty much Mission Accomplished, then, eh?
Oh, wavydavy:
FACT: Not one single commenter here, including the estimable dsidhe (who can at least address the questioner without profanity or comparing him to Laura Ingraham), has directly and specifically answered the question raised.
ACTUAL TRUE FACT: Several people “directly and specifically answered the question raised.” Most with some variation of “Why make it easier for the terrorists?” Also, too, another popular answer among commenters (including the estimable dsidhe) was some variation of “Because whatever is done would never be enough to satisfy the Rita Dillers and obsessive picketers.”
Perhaps you missed that. Perhaps because you were concerned:
But, I must say that I am truly surprised and disappointed by the tone (I’ll leave it at that) of way too many of those directing a response to alan1tx, which can best be described politely as vituperative.
Joe Lieberman, is that you?
I think we have a winner in the contest for new motto, Holy Roman Apostolic and Catholic Church edition:
“The communication of the truth is not a universal right,” he said.
Truly, words to live by.
Gentle, Nicely said….the point seemed toooo obtuse to get across. Thanks
Yes, it’s definitely something like that… just ask raging hypocritical, do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do duplicitious scumbag Phyllis Schlafly. And/or read Margaret Atwood’s excellent The Handmaid’s Tale…. which includes my favorite aphorism: Illegitimi non carborundum.
Well considering the number of “non-fiction” books Glenn Beck and Ann Coulter sell, it’s no wonder conservatives see The Handmaid’s Tale as a handy instruction manual for setting up a system of governance.
Because there is no reason to believe that the people who would like to see this happen are proposing it in good faith.
Practically speaking: Abortion doctors are easier to identify and kill when they have to work at a clinic than if they’re just one of a large number of OB/GYNs going in and out of a hospital. It is also much, much easier to ignore picketers behaving in thoroughly reprehensible ways outside a women’s clinic. If these fuckers were super gluing closed the doors of actual hospitals, or blocking access to actual hospitals, or setting up a non-medical clinic down the street from a hospital that bore a name very similar to the hospital’s so they could direct patients there instead to keep them away from medical care, while taking personal information they have no intention of keeping private, I think the law would come down on them quite hard. The fact that it’s only happening to a “special interest group” with marginalized specific health issues means that it’s easy to just let it continue to happen, and then everyone feigns shock when someone is actually murdered.
On a moral level, there are women who need abortions to save their lives. Or to save their health. Or because the fetus is already dead. You know these things happen. Why should we make their lives, even if it’s only a few women, more difficult, their access to medical care more time-consuming and risky, their decisions more emotionally fraught, in the name of compromise with people who have shown they are not arguing in good faith?
I’m not willing to do that. I’m not willing to make their lives harder in the hopes that the people who demanded that compromise won’t then move the goalposts and demand another concession, and another, and another. They are very clearly, openly saying that what they want is to make abortion, if not illegal, unobtainable. Some of them are openly admitting they think the pill should be illegal, and it’s not just whackjobs on the streetcorner, these are people with some power to influence policy in this country. Why throw some people to the wolves in hopes the wolves will be sated, when the wolves have already said they will not. Hold the line here before obtaining legal medical care becomes any harder for any more women. Because we are going to have to fight them on this somewhere, so let’s do it here. Personally, I would have preferred to do it before we got to where any billing rep or pharmacist could refuse to help women who are victims of rape get the morning after pill, but hey, as Joe Lieberman put it, they can just go somewhere else, right? Never mind that, as the author of the piece above found, they can’t, even for things that should be as non-controversial as a cancer screening. If we compromise with them here, women die. If we compromise with them on the next point of argument, more women die. They’ve already said they will not accept compromise. Are you over at ALL’s website asking why they can’t compromise? If not, why not? Why do the concessions always have to be from us? Why do the compromises always have to limit a legal medical procedure?
And, really, they wouldn’t accept it. Not even a onto-the-next-battle acceptance. They already seriously believe that their tax dollars support abortions. Actual, surgical abortions, not just the weird condoms-kill-babies thing. Many of them will tell you that their tax dollars directly support abortions, and that PP and the government are just lying when they say that’s not happening. Assuming they’ll even go that far, which in my experience they won’t. Many anti-choicers will assert right out that the law forces tax dollars to pay for abortion on demand. They can’t be swayed by any recitation of any law. They *know* it’s true, and that you’re simply wrong about what the law says.
I did answer that question. So did others.
Why not set up abortion clinics elsewhere? Because it won’t work. Because you are assuming that the people who don’t like abortions are arguing in good faith and would–or even can–be satisfied that their tax dollars are not paying for abortions. There is no evidence to support that, and their own words as evidence that they see the entire debate as a matter of moving the regulations bit by bit to where abortions are unavailable to any woman for any reason regardless of who is paying.
And even then, they’ve already announced their intentions to go after the pill next. The craziest ones–and crazy does not in any way mean “possessing no ability to influence policy”–will admit they’re prepared to go after barrier methods of birth control after that.
Because it won’t work. Because it will do no woman in need of an abortion any good, and you know what? A lot of women have abortions. A *lot*. They’re not some tiny fringe you can safely shuttle off to a back lot and not think about. They’re us, the women you know.
Even in the interest of absolute goddamned humanity, why is it acceptable to shame these women–who, again, are an awful lot of us–into believing they’re some kind of freaks who must be kept away from any other woman needing health care? It’s bad enough we insist they must be kept away from men–you know, people–who need health care in hospitals. We don’t insist people go to special little clinics, even without protesters and violence, to get their gall bladders removed. But this? We’ve made an exception for because it seemed an expedient way to solve an argument based almost entirely on “MY morals say YOUR morals are wrong”.
And as it turns out? It hasn’t solved anything. Doctors are more easily targeted for harassment and violence. Patients are more easily diverted to “crisis pregnancy centers” where they are lied to and have their medical privacy violated, where they receive no actual care, only a ration of shame and misinformation and any sort of delaying tactics the staff there can come up with to make them miss their appointments. Laws are more easily passed to regulate these separate buildings out of existence over the square footage of their supply closets. And women going in to get a fucking pap smear or a cyst looked at or to get a prescription for pre-natal vitamins are forced to deal with incredibly hostile people waving propaganda at them.
How does any of that help? What makes you think any more concessions are going to help? And if this is a compromise, not just a concession, then what does the other side agree to, and how do you intend to enforce that, since our half will inevitably be enforced with more laws? (Remember, crisis pregnancy clinics, which again, do no medicine and which rely on debunked studies and which are not required to comply with medical privacy laws, get government funds. My tax dollars go to telling women that they will get breast cancer, or become sterile, or kill themselves if they have an abortion. PP? Is getting funding for cancer detection cut off.)
Look, I know you think that this can be easily solved, and that you’ve stumbled onto the rational solution and you think that we’re balking entirely out of ideology. And I will defend women who need or want abortions on the basis of ideology, because it’s their decision. But we’ve, believe me, considered these things. Do you honestly think that it just hasn’t occurred to anyone that it might be worth making changes if it will stop the harassment and the violence and the targeted regulation that has the declared intention of putting them out of business?
If you think you have the blindingly obvious solution, and you’re wondering why no one has implemented it, it might be worth considering that the blindingly obvious solution is just as obvious to other people as to you. And that maybe there actually are reasons that it hasn’t been implemented.
Seriously, I want to know, what part of the answers, the very specific and adamant answers, that you have gotten to the question, do you find unsatisfactory? I somewhat apologize for the profanity and the intensity of the replies you’ve gotten, but what you are saying to us is, “It’s so obvious, why are you being so stupid/stubborn?” That may not be what you’re meaning to say, but if we assume that you’re actually asking the questions and wanting the answers, there aren’t a lot of other ways to interpret what you’re saying. And if you’re not actually looking for information, then, based on our past arguments with people who ask these questions, you are very likely just trying to make us look unreasonable for not going along with something that has already been considered. Either way, I don’t think the irritation is out of line. Especially when we are answering and you are not, apparently, seeing those answers.
Okay, let me backtrack a minute. Because I just spotted what was getting to me about the “Why the tone” thing.
It looks like this: a couple of the guys here are having this perfectly rational conversation about what are all the options to solve the whole abortion thing so we can move onto something more important like, for example, economic justice. And then these women start in with what to the guys, apparently, looks like we’ve started having a fight with you in the middle of what was simply a dispassionate discussion of the options.
It is an easy example of male privilege that you may not have had these discussions before. There’s always stuff that’s more relevant to your life if you have not been called upon to help make these choices, the aforementioned economic justice, for example. As women involved in politics, I assure you we have. Even just as women whose insurance company directs us to a specific clinic to get treated for a cyst on our ladybits because they have some pressure group demanding they not direct us to a closer clinic, we’ve had these discussions before.
It is an extremely common feature of these arguments that someone will come in and say some version of what you’re saying here, “Why don’t they just do this extremely rational from my perspective thing, it would save everybody so much trouble.” Most of the time, these people are, you know, trolls. They have asked the question before and rejected the answers they are given. They’re not actually there for answers, they are there to make themselves feel reasonable, and to suggest that women are being emotional and stubborn, when the solution is in their hands all along.
Sometimes these people will get treated gently, because it’s obvious that however they’re coming across, they honestly don’t understand something we’ve all spent a long time on. But, if you want to be regarded as an actual questioner who just needs some information, it helps to not, specifically, use the word “just”.
As in:
Because that “just” there, and coupled with the “they can even” a couple sentences later, is extremely condescending. What it is saying is, “my solution is simple and reasonable, and it is beyond me why you are not smart enough or reasonable enough to take my advice”. And yeah, people who have been having this argument take offense. Want more proof? Go over to Pharyngula and ask “why can’t schools just teach both sides? They can even teach evolution in a separate class”.
I’m sorry if we assumed you were belligerent trolls when instead you were just undiplomatically ignorant. (See? That “just” makes you defensive, doesn’t it.) But either one is pretty annoying, especially if you really cared about what you were asking, you could have found the answers long before now, and you probably wouldn’t regard an issue of life, death, and self-determination for half the population (remember, bringing a pregnancy to term is a choice, too) as “toeing” some “imaginary party line”.
Can you see where that sounds a little condescending and dismissive? Can you understand a little better the feeling that you just got got ambushed with an argument-already-in-progress?
My apologies to all. I believe I was the one who ruined the tone of this thread with my crude and vituperative language. Allow me to rephrase my comment to alan1tx in a socially acceptable manner:
I invite you to fuck the fuck off.
@dsidhe –
I appreciate your taking the time and trouble to respond to my post in such an eloquent and detailed manner. Truly.
That said — and, please, correct me if I am wrong — I still do not see anyone disputing the statement, from the link provided earlier that:
If we all agree that this is true — I have no reason to doubt it, but if you do (or anyone else reading this does), please provide it — then, again and still, the question arises: why stop providing ALL of the services that PP provides? Is that not throwing out the baby with the bathwater? I am still not seeing a good answer to that.
And — aside from questioning the need for the shitstorm rained on alan1tx’s head for simply asking a question — I really would like to know the answer to his question. I would like to hear someone from PP explain why, given the enormous amount of other services — vital and necessary ones, at that — they provide, it was decided that the best thing to do was to close up shop permanently. As cogent and as lucid as your responses to me are, they still beg that question.
As for some of the other issues you raise, let me respond briefly:
– No, I have absolutely no reason whatsoever to believe that those opposed to PP (let’s call them “the opposition” to make it shorter for the rest of this comment) are negotiating in good faith. I do not think MOST of the people on the opposition side are now, have ever, or will in the future do so.
– Of course, isolating abortion services makes them easier to target. But PP is, apparently, already doing that.
– No, I don’t think PP should compromise with the opposition. In fact, I am exceedingly disappointed that they have agreed to any reduction in their abortion services at all. Then again, my head is not in the crosshairs when I go in and out of my place of work, so who am I to judge?
– You say, “Why not set up abortion clinics elsewhere? Because it won’t work.” Except, so far as I can tell, PP is already doing that. Again, the question of ceasing the provision of ANY AND ALL services is being begged.
– I am well aware that so-called “respectable” politicians, such as Pope-Wannabe Santorum, are already talking about criminalizing contraception. Again, is not closing ALL of the PP services caving into this kind of pressure?
– You ask, “What makes you think any more concessions are going to help?” I don’t – and what makes you think I do? And that is yet another reason why I find it at the very least peculiar that PP thinks it a good idea to stop providing non-abortion services.
– You say, “I know you think that this can be easily solved, and that you’ve stumbled onto the rational solution and you think that we’re balking entirely out of ideology.” Wrong on both counts.
I do not think it will be easy, at least not as long as the “Clan of the Red Beanies” and its supporters and enablers still has any political clout (and they do have 6 of the 9 justices at SCOTUS). And I do not think I have stumbled on any solution at all, rational or otherwise; I am simply asking a question that I think deserves a good answer. An answer, I might add, that needs to come from PP, not from any of the commenters here, who clearly know no more about PP’s internal politics than I do.
– You ask, “what part of the answers… do you find unsatisfactory?” What answers? As for profanity, none of it was directed at me, so I don’t really care about that; furthermore, as I indicated in my first comment, I have been an habitué of TBogg’s House O’ Snark and Bassets for quite some time; I know how the comments work here. (Hell, I was one of the people snarking away foolish commenters like smoothjazz and nonpartisanliberal.) It concerned me that the VERY FIRST response to alan1tx’s original question was “Fuck the fuck off”, and it went downhill from there (your comments excepted, of course).
You say, “[I]t is an easy example of male privilege that you may not have had these discussions before. There’s always stuff that’s more relevant to your life if you have not been called upon to help make these choices”. Sorry, but that is pure, unadulterated bullshit, and a condescending insult that undercuts much of what you are saying. Let me elaborate. (I really hate to get into the “Well, in my day” type of rant, but it seems appropriate as a response to what you say. So, some life experiences of mine.)
(1) I got my high school girlfriend (and eventual future ex-wife) pregnant in 1968. As you surely know, abortion was illegal in all 50 states back then, so this was the most traumatic experience of my life. (Even now, it surely ranks in the top three.) As someone who doesn’t believe in abandoning others in need, I was with her through the entire process: cutting school to find a clinic in the Village where we could even have the discussion, trying to figure out how to come up with the $400 for the abortion plus the additional funds for airfare to Puerto Rico (the nearest place it was legal), debating whether we should find a back-alley provider, hiding it from the parents, the whole kit and kaboodle. As luck(?) would have it, her father was an abusive alcoholic, and he beat her (not because of the pregnancy, which he didn’t know about, but because she wanted to go to an anti-Vietnam War demonstration) so badly that she lost the baby.
(2) My first job out of college was working in the Office of the Mayor in NYC, at the bureau that was charged with enforcing relevant city, state, and Federal EEO (and later affirmative action) requirements on city contractors (Bureau of Labor Services). (NYC is required by law to contract out any construction work over $50,000; it’s a legacy of Boss Tweed’s day.) I actually started working for this bureau two months before the mayor officially announced it; the “protected classes” covered by the requirements we were enforcing did not even include females at that time (“race, creed, and color” was the full extent). Because of the work of our bureau, and after a whole lot of agitating, we got the mayor at the time (Abe Beame) to issue an executive order including “gender” as one of the protected classifications.
(3) Finally, to keep this from getting too much longer (probably already a lost cause), I guarantee you my politics are, if anything, more radical than yours. As you surely have noticed by now, I think ANY concessions made by PP regarding the services they provide, abortion and otherwise, is a mistake. It is surely seen as a sign of weakness among the opposition, it encourages that opposition to become more strident and ask for even more restrictions on reproductive freedom (e.g., the anti-contraception movement previously mentioned).
(4) I live roughly 4 blocks away from a PP facility in Manhattan. I am quite familiar with what goes on at that location, both inside (from having taken female friends there) and outside (though, fortunately, there is not much of the nonsense from the opposition as in other places).
– You say, ” someone will come in and say…’Why don’t they just do this extremely rational from my perspective thing, it would save everybody so much trouble.’” WRONG. I did not say that. What I did say, and repeat again here, is why doesn’t somebody answer the question that was raised? I don’t think it is the best solution; hell, it is not even a particularly GOOD solution. The fact remains, however, that PP is, so far as I know, already doing some of that, so why take the ADDITIONAL step of ceasing to provide ALL other services. Also, so far as I know, that is what alan1tx was asking. I do not recognize him from previous posts, he didn’t sound like a troll, teabagger, or firebagger, and he asked what seems to me to be a very reasonable question. (BTW, the Pharyngula analogy is totally irrelevant; nobody is suggesting that PP commence providing imaginary services.)
– You say, “I’m sorry if we assumed you were belligerent trolls when instead you were just undiplomatically ignorant.” First of all, if you have been paying attention here for the last 5+ years (at least), you would know by now that I am not a troll (though I know nothing about alan1tx, he doesn’t seem to be one either). Second, the only “undiplomatically ignorant” thing is your condescending remark about my qualifications to comment, when you knew absolutely nothing about them. It’s not the “just” that raises my hackles, it’s the unfounded and totally unnecessary “undiplomatically ignorant”.
– You say, “if you really cared… you could have found the answers long before now, and you probably wouldn’t regard an issue of life, death, and self-determination for half the population…as ‘toeing’ some ‘imaginary party line’.” No, I STILL don’t know the answer (neither do you, apparently); I am still waiting for the question to be answered, by someone who has some knowledge of the answer. And, to reference your next graf, what IS “a little condescending and dismissive” is your assumption that I regard this issue as something trivial.
Seriously, you could not and will not in a million years of trying be more wrongheaded in anything you ever say — though you do make my point for me about the unnecessary hatred from some of the commenters in responding to alan1tx and now to me.
I have already stated my opinion on the topic of abortion, which is, in its simplest form, men (ALL men) should just STFU about it. Whatever a woman decides to do with HER body is entirely HER decision. I am also, actually, quite disappointed (if that isn’t clear by now) that PP finds it necessary to cease providing ANY of their services. So far as I can tell, you are defending that decision while claiming to be a supporter of women’s equal access to medical care. How do you reconcile those two obviously contradictory positions?
Anyway, it is way past time for me to go home and feed the kitties, so I will stop here. I sincerely do want to thank you, again, dsidhe, for taking the time and effort to respond to me; as I said earlier, I appreciate your being able to do so without profanity or metaphorical poo-flinging. I have seen your comments at many other places — World O’ Crap comes to mind; I post as “David in NYC” there and most other places (for some reason, I cannot use that nom de blog here) — so I respect and admire you as someone who can sure post a mean comment. In an odd sort of way, I feel honored that I provoked such an elegant response from you.
Take care, and illegitimi non carborundum.
See how easy that was? You could have avoided the whole brouhaha if you had just said it that way the first time around. ;-)
*banging head against brick wall*
Okay, that’s the problem here, I guess. You want an actual spokesperson from Planned Parenthood to answer your specific questions, and you’re unprepared to acknowledge anyone else’s comments of any sort as actual answers. Thanks, that clears that right up.
So maybe you could go find a Planned Parenthood spokesperson and ask them. If that’s the only thing you’re going to accept as an answer, go find that.
You know what, wavydavy? I was somewhat surprised to see you leaping in to defend the incredibly condescending initial remark from alan 1tx. Because I had the impression from past comments of yours that you were a reasonable person with whom I would not likely have arguments. But I cannot fathom why you, why alan 1tx especially, but why you, since I have no other impressions of him, would be so baffled as to how utterly condescending and hostile that initial comment of his was, and be so goddamned staggered at people responding with anger of their own. It was a nasty, insulting, Why Don’t You Just Do Things My Way comment, and it pissed off people who get that all the time on this subject.
alan 1tx came in and said, among other things, that abortion is not part of the good things that PP does and is a medical procedure distinct from helping women, that the solution is obvious and that he’s unwilling to sit and think about why it may not actually be something that works but he’d rather we did his research for him and just tell him while he condescends to us, that the problem is caused by PP’s actions and not by the actions of the theocrats, and then topped it all off with a sarcastic little dig about “all those cheap health services for women” as though PP has just forgotten its mission and needed that little reminder so they could stop fussing about this abortion stuff and get back to doing the things that presumably are morally acceptable (although, as we’ve explained, even they aren’t morally acceptable to the anti-choicers.)
Look! His actual comments: “Based on those numbers of services provided, it seems like PP hardly does any abortions at all. Why don’t they just stop that one procedure, then they can stay open, take all the government money and provide all those cheap health services for women?” “I just asked if PP helps women 99% of the time and does abortions 1% of the time, why would they decide to close down rather than give up providing that 1% service?” And this one, where he claims to be trying to avoid provoking anyone: “If they do so much good (low-cost paps, breast exams and contraceptives to keep women healthy), and so few abortions, why not focus on the former, rather than completely close down all the clinics as listed above?”
That’s a pretty good contribution to the regrettable tone of this thread. It’s more passive aggressive than “Fuck off”, but maybe passive aggressive condescension is not something everyone is charmed by.
The vast majority of the hostility, including mine, has been aimed at that remark and those follow-ups. You’ve come in for some yourself by continuing to demand answers that have been given to you, because apparently there’s some format you need those answers in to even be able to accept them as actual answers.
The closest I can pin down the question is, to quote alan 1tx’s bout of condescension up there, “Just wondering why PP would decide to close down rather than change 1% of their service”. It’s probably nasty of me to quote alan 1tx’s incredibly inartful wording, so here’s yours, just for balance: “And, if anyone is still listening, I, too, would like to know a real answer to the original question: why not keep the other services and spin off the abortion part?”
Seriously, the best answer anyone here can give you is the ones we already have given. “Because that one percent is important too, and we should not have to make it easier for the puritans to target and shut down. Because women’s clinics shouldn’t have to try to compromise with people who will immediately demand more compromises while never giving any ground themselves, and they never should have tried. Because all women’s health care should be available in doctors’ offices and all surgical procedures on women should be done in hospitals, just like surgeries on men. Regional outreach clinics should be available in otherwise under-served areas for all medical care, not just pap smears and cancer screenings, but podiatry and cholesterol testing, and for men, women, and children. It should be about location and poverty levels, not about someone’s moral view of the care involved.”
I’m tired of giving ground on this. And I’m tired of dealing with people who think it’s a marginal issue but one they feel compelled to be flippant about whenever it comes up while they’re bored.
I’ll take your word that you consider this a non-trivial issue, and I honestly don’t even care what your position on it is, though I did assume you weren’t a condoms-kill-babies nut. Mind you, if you’d like to explain why “It is really depressing (to me, anyway) to see this blog turn into just another place for screaming and invective directed at those who don’t toe some imaginary party line.” is not an assessment that the availability of a legal medical procedure that is a matter of life and death for some and of self-determination for all is just some kind of imaginary party litmus test, maybe someone here will bother to listen. I’m wondering if I’ve managed to badly miss how privileged you are based on your lack of recognition of the privilege in alan 1tx’s comments, and I’m pretty much done here. Imagine me wiggling my fingers at you, you may assume it is the evil eye or that I think your cats are adorable. I don’t actually care.
Incidentally, I’ve been ranted at here too, mostly when I complain about the fat jokes or the ping-pong ball jokes. It actually is part of the atmosphere here, and I choose to believe it doesn’t mean I’m a bad person because people disagree with me, even if they do so profanely. I assume the conversation will not bring anyone to an amicable consensus, and go do something worthwhile in the real world. I applaud your ability to do the same, and now it’s my turn.
Next time, I’ll probably just opt for the wise response of others on this thread and suggest someone fuck off right from the start. It’s less frustrating and results, apparently, in the same amount of understanding.
I refuse to believe that dropping the F-bomb is profane when one’s elected representative sits in front of one of his constituents and lies to her face:
“He scoffed, waving around a handful of papers—spreadsheets and maps, it looked like—and told me that Planned Parenthood was nothing but a tax-evading abortion machine (he knew because he used to be a bank examiner and had heard some things from some people) and there were so many other options besides Planned Parenthood in Texas. I should and could go to one of those, he told me, so we could spread some of the wealth around to these smaller providers. It would be very easy, he said.”
That Rep. Flynn can lecture Ms. Grimes on the care of her body knowing full well the services she seeks are not available as he describes is obscene.
Arguing theoreticals on a blog (and, yes alan1tx, an argument posed as a question is still an argument) is all well and good, but for real people in the real world their pain and suffering is hardly an abstraction. And for those asking the question, c’mon, are you serious? Setting up a separate “Abortions R’ Us” store is going to solve the issue? You really can’t answer that question for yourselves?