
I was going to come home tonight and write about the fact that it looks like Mitt Romney’s Quest for The CEOShip of America, Fuck Yeah LLC is deader than Bob Dole’s dick (see here and here) barring a catastrophic event before 11/6 that conservatives will gleefully blame on Barack Obama before the bodies are even cold.
Is that cynical?
Not even close.
But instead I came home to young Conor Friedersdorf stroking his chin and thinking thoughts so deep you’d need a bathysphere and something slightly better than iOS 6 Maps to find them and read them were it not for the profoundly serious pages of The Atlantic which, I should add, once hosted She Who Could Not Count.
But then I got sidetracked by twittertrolls into playing the “You are a horrible moral monster and every time you respond to me I am going to move the goalposts and then change the subject for points redeemable for valuable discounts and prizes from the Jill Stein/Spongebob Purepants Utopian Bagatelle“. Yeah. That happens to me a lot.
So here is Erik Loomis at LG&M with the gist (and trust me, Connor’s piece is an exercise in brevity compared to Godlstein’s How Come You Never Return My Calls After I Dry-Humped You? lament which is like Mean Girls for the Over-educated and Under-medicated). Back to Loomis:
Connor Friedersdorf writes the kind of political essay I can’t see anyone but a privileged white person writing. Going as far as to nearly (but not quite he says!) compare President Obama to an apologist for slavery, he can’t stomach voting for Obama because of his policies in Pakistan, drones, etc.
Instead, he says we should vote for Gary Johnson since there’s a candidate who won’t do those things.
In a sense I respect it when people care so much about one issue that they can’t vote for any candidate who disagrees. On the other hand, Friedersdorf doesn’t seem to care one iota about the horrible economic and social policies a Romney administration would enact. He doesn’t seem to care at all about labor, abortion rights, gay rights, environmental policy, etc., etc. It’s all about drones, civil liberties, and such. And Obama has indeed sucked on those issues.
But given that Friedersdorf probably doesn’t have to worry much about his next paycheck or be concerned about having an unwanted fetus in his body, it’s a luxury for him to be a one-issue voter on this particular issue.
Conor, who has identified previously as being somewhat conservative, has decided that he can’t in good conscience vote for Obama because … drones and Yemen and al-Awaki. The fact that the social agendas of Obama and Romney with regard to the poor, the elderly, women, gays, the middle class, and college students are as different as night and day doesn’t factor into his equation. This isn’t to say that Conor lacks empathy for these groups; they’re just not part of his Big Picture Moral Universe where queasiness is more of an existential problem and less the result of being faint with hunger or in need of unaffordable and therefore unobtainable healthcare. That’s fine. That is his issue. And so, after much reflection and navel gazing, Conor has concluded that he shall cast his lot for, and snuggle into, the warm and wooly moral embrace of Ron Paul Lite Gary Johnson because the actual symbolism of voting for Johnson will form an impenetrable protective shield over Pakistani civilians and then Conor can sleep better at night knowing that he has symbolically prolonged a life as opposed to, you know, voting for someone who is actually going to be President and actually, you know, do an actual stuff in the real world.
And if Conor hasn’t sold you on Gary Johnson yet, it isn’t because he hasn’t done his homework.
Or has he….?:
Okay. But still … drones.





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If I’m not mistaken, Conor lives in L.A. Which means he can afford the protest vote, since Romney has zero chance in California. But he can’t just say that, of course. He has to go all Deep Thoughts and wisely stroke his chin because he’s such a damn sage.
Plus I have zero faith whatsoever that an alleged civil libertarian like Johnson or even Ron Paul would actually be able to get the entire national security and military bureaucracies to actually stop all the violations they claim they would stop the minute they take the oath of office, but that’s me, I’m a cynic.
Let me save you some serious ear-bleeding: do not get off the boat after reading that post on the Godlstein meltdown, instead skip directly to the HTML Mencken classic linked in comments by JDC. What a glorious trip down memory lane, back to those misty days of hundred+ hyperlink dismantlings of wingnuts into their constituent subatomic particles.
I read The. Whole. Fucking. Thing.
Shorter: They’re just not into you so why don’t you go get a fucking job.
“[...] the actual symbolism of voting for Johnson will form an impenetrable protective shield over Pakistani civilians and then Conor can sleep better at night.” Gold. Because it’s apparently not really about policies that affect others; no, it’s all about how Conor feels about Conor’s feelings and things that matter most to Conor in that cute abstract and privileged way. Not that there’s anything wrong with all of that if you happen to be Conor, but it sure as hell doesn’t mean anyone else should follow his advice.
I’m actually eager to hear how another of our favorite Glibertarians will vote in November. Remember when McMegan said she supported Obama but didn’t vote for him, because she’s a 19 year-old girlie girl who’s just too silly and carefree to remember how to register to vote?
Anyhoo, I’m guessing she’ll have to come up with another whacky story this time around. Maybe Suderman rolled a joint with her registration papers or something. Good times.
So, given the challenges the President faced with a nominal majority that refused to act like one, how exactly is the libertarian messiah going to govern? No caucus, no party whips, no votes to make deals with, no legislative leverage at all. And this is going to work how?
When the Pauls find the cojones to step out of the warm embrace of the bughouse that is today’s GOP and hoist their libertarian flag, I’ll look into taking them seriously. Bernie Sanders is a declared socialist, which is not exactly a winning strategy in most places, yet these yokels claim to be fighting for the values of the founders.
Good grief. I had read that article but haven’t seen that exchange.
“I don’t really know what the guy I’m going to vote for as President thinks about “domestic” policies, but that’s okay, because I don’t think he does either.”
I think we need a new term for “High-output-yet-low-information” voter.
After the Nader fiasco in 2000, how does one even THINK of throwing a vote, any vote, in any state on any wingnut / libertarian BS?
If this country is center right, well, shit, I am voting to try and move the center back left.
Yeah, I hate the fact that we have guys sitting in Nevada playing video games with people’s lives over in Africa – but a) Romney ain’t gonna stop that shit and b) he is going to make much worse shit right here.
That is all I ever need to know when I step into that voting booth next month.
… And I want Hillary Clinton to run in 2016. It is about time a black guy was followed by a woman – and Hillary is the best I can think of. Perhaps it should have been the other way around, but no, I am not complaining.
I immediately thought of you when I read that piece, T. Standard contrarian bullshit. He just wanted that headline out there, since every other piece is headed #RomneyFail.
Amusing how he just blows off monetary policy and fiscal issues with Barro, revealing the depth and seriousness of his argument. He may as well have gone with the ‘Legalize Weed!’ argument.
Anyways, can’t wait til the firebaggers wake up and find this.
Oh, also, too: @Godlstein-Herman Melville called. He says your article is ‘longish’.
I’d suggest that the kind of people who might vote Libertarian wouldn’t have voted for Obama anyway. But in the end at the presidential level one has a choice between bad policies and disastrous policies.
“I think we need a new term for “High-output-yet-low-information” voter.”
I’ve been calling them “Teabaggers” or, if I’m speaking to them formally, I may begin, “My fellow Texans…”.
PresidentialEmperor’s magic wand?I was thinking more of someone who puts out tons of information about politics yet fits the low-information voter profile by not really knowing the first thing about half of a candidate’s positions before deciding to vote for him.
Tea Baggers are low-information/high-decibel voters, but most of them don’t write a blog about politics for the Atlantic.
Ok, Nader was a problem in 2000 as it turned out. Don’t forget that Bush was running to appear to be reasonable and Gore was running to the right (who was his running mate again?).
Gore really refused to fight and the democrats in the Senate refused to block the election of Bush which they could have done if they thought it was important. It was more important to keep things calm and keep the appearance of a functioning democracy then to have honesty in the elections and the Senate democrats went along with that.
Finally, after Bush was president the democrats basically rolled over on their backs and piddled when the republicans looked mean at them. So we would have been better off with a president Gore, but we would also have been better off with an active opposition in congress.
So I guess my point is that things didn’t start and stop with Nader, things would not have been as bad if democrats had actually stood for something.
The things you do for your readers . . .
Okay, that guy is douche-tastic…BUT…if you live in a state like Mississippi (like me) that President Obama has 0% chance of winning you have the luxury of voting your conscience. In my case, that means Jill Stein in my case, just so you know.
It’s the hand-washing that is so annoying, not the hand-wringing. So much easier to claim, ‘Well, I had to go with my conscience (even though it didn’t mean a goddam thing overall), but my intent was honorable!’
More priveledged white-boy potential-grievance-material bullshit from yet another priveledged white-boy.
So The Atlantic now has a incompetent political ‘writer’, to replace the incompetent economics ‘writer’. It’s not the dead-trees media, it’s the dead-brain media.
I’ll blame Obama, but I’ll still vote for him.
So, wait, Friedsdorf is going to vote for a guy who “hasn’t thought much” about fiscal and monetary policy?
And the bonus take is – it’s OK because he won’t be able to do anything anyway?
Fuck me.
Presidents have been killing American citizens since the birth of this country. Governors have been executing American citizens for decades. Juries of their peers have recommended death sentences for convicted felons for years.
Oh, but now DRONEZ. So replacing Obama will definitely make all that icky reality go away and we can go back to launching real wars against Iran which are okey dokey.
But, wait, there’s always Jill Stein. She is going to fix all those safety net problems and such and such on day one. Fuck the drone shit and Johnson. O you don’t think she can be elected?
That means the choice is between fucking the 47% or sending a few drones to blot out a few terrorists? Let the blotting continue.
Hey Hey Hey So youse want all of that SuperPac gazillions to go to waste? Conor is just trolling for wingnut welfare, cmon. A guys gotta have some extra cash after paying for a Lido deck stateroom on 3 or 4 winter wingnut cruises.
Everything is gonna be OK, Obama will do his moderately Republican schtick, McConnell will controll the Democratic Senate and Boehner and Cantor will find new and inventive ways of turning Fox talking points into the Everybody Gets A Pony Act of 2015.
But whatever you do just congradulate yourself for electing Obama and give your butt a rest. Really, voting is hard and then it will be time for teh Owners of America to Troll the government for our own benefit. So just stay outa the street and dont go agitating for Change and shit whatever you do.
i like that part where he says “I am not a purist”.
apparently the single-issue purity he needs 10,000 words to defend is nothing compared to the purity he knows he could achieve. he must hate himself for being such a squish.
so after obama wins will be allowed to complain about bombing weddings and killing children or will that still be off limits? i guess we wouldn’t want to shit on biden ’16 now would we
complain all you want. if you are truly a one-issue voter, and this is your one and only issue, complain away.
if your only concern, in all of American politics, is this one, then complain away.
personally, i don’t believe one-issue voters exist.
As I said over at LGM, it is also the case that even if you give priority to Friedersdorf’s issues over all else (a stupid proposition in itself), Romney is also demonstrably far worse on those as well. Romney actively supports attacking Iran and backs the most militaristic and radical factions in Israel, which Obama does not (even if he does not clearly repudiate them).
Read Rebecca Solnit, newly up at TomDispatch. There are some fun phrases thoughout (“every four years we are asked if we want to have our foot trod upon or sawed off at the ankle without anesthetic. The usual reply on the left is that there’s no difference between the two experiences and they prefer that Che Guevara give them a spa pedicure”) but the most relevant part is totally serious:
nice strawman. no one said this is my one issue. but as long as we talkin’ issues how about cracking down on wall street or tossing a bone to the poors?
crap, i better shut up. wouldn’t want to ruin the election and end the world as we know it
You know how I know Friedersdorf is full of shit? He includes this little bit of sophistry in his article: “At worst, this policy creates more terrorists than it kills”. This idiotic notion, that terrorists are Batmans seeking revenge for their dead families, is the kind of stand-in for argument that gets repeated constantly by these Progressive purists. Is there any evidence at all that drone strikes have a multiplicative effect on the number of terrorists? I’ve never seen it provided, yet this claim is repeated ad nauseum.
Beautiful. Thank you for that link.
If I may, Ms. Solnit reminds of the big picture. Also, too.
“We are facing a radical right that has abandoned all interest in truth and fact. We face not only their specific policies, but a kind of cultural decay that comes from not valuing truth, not trying to understand the complexities and nuances of our situation, and not making empathy a force with which to act. To oppose them requires us to be different from them, and that begins with both empathy and intelligence, which are not as separate as we have often been told.”
“Conor Friedersdorf?” Seriously? Does that name come with the obligatory
dronestick up the ass, or is that extra?I’m sorry, that’s not very nice. I’m going to
HellBarstow, for sure.Indeed. The piece is hard to excerpt, because it’s (um) nuanced and intelligent and dense and complex. Lots more good stuff in there, hint hint.
No Travy, after Obama wins, progressives need to work hard to get the AUMF rescinded and more rational laws written governing how this country deals with terrorists.
…or the 2014 elections will mimic the 2010s.
strawman?
do you not know what the word “if” means and what it does in a sentence?
It is an obvious nom de blog.
why even respond then? ‘if’ you’re just waxin’ philosophic ‘n shit, why quote me? but ‘if’ you’re just trying to muddy my point by calling me myopic, then kindly fuck off. but ‘if’ in fact that’s not what you’re trying to do, then i humbly apologize.
but i suspect you are just another member of the lynch mob here that pounces on any utterance of disapproval of the chosen one (not tboww) by anyone anywhere on the internets in some lame attempt to puff out your chest and call the rest of us unicorn fuckers and rainbow smokers.
here’s what i think is going on. you and the rest of the steely pragmatists here are suffering from the same cognitive dissonance that the rest of us to the left are. you know deep down that we all have blood on her hands for the atrocities that have continued and even escalated under our president. but the republican boogie man is the perfect distraction for you to avoid this inconvenient truth.
look, i’m no naderite. i’m not advising protest votes in a battleground states but the way this place shuts down any and all dissent even from those of us in firmly blue states is super lame. it’s even lamer now that obama seems poised for a blowout and it reeks of inconsistency.
throw in some drones = penises up the ass jokes and it’s appalling. play keyboard machiavelli’s all you want but don’t get your panties in a wad just because someone calls you out on your callous electoral strategery.
..the same cognitive dissonance that the rest of us to the left are. you know deep down that we all have blood on her hands for the atrocities that have continued and even escalated under our president. but the republican boogie man is the perfect distraction for you to avoid this inconvenient truth.
Travy, this country has been knee deep in blood since its founding…
“…the way this place shuts down any and all dissent even from those of us in firmly blue states is super lame.”
Who shut you down? Seems like you got to speak your piece just fine.
yes, yes but i’d argue it’s worse now. it’s out in the open for all to see. there used to be some moral fig leaf to hide behind because who could say for sure if we were in central america or asia or wherever advising death squads. the difference now is, we are the death squads.
again, i dont’ completely disagree with this lesser of two evils crap, but insulting us and making jokes about some awful shit is a few clicks too far especially if the face of what looks to be a blowout. feel me?
‘shouted down’ is perhaps better than ‘shut down’ but i think the point stands. any misspellings or comma errors you want to point out?
‘Us’?
-You- are expressing yourself as though you were an absolutely raving loony. I would prefer not to be included in your nuttery. Or, are you suggesting yourself to be a part of a collective? An editor? The Queen?
Get a grip.
sorry i needed a pronoun to stand in for ‘those who don’t have obama’s cock in their mouth’ but keep implying i’m nutjob if that’s all you got left to prop yourself up with.
you’ve been around here a long time so don’t act like this isn’t like the tenth thread on this subject and there aren’t two distinct sides to the argument. ridicule is all your side has at this point and that seems to be the sole purpose of these threads.
“shouted down”?
Must be my monitor, your font looks the same size as everyone else’s.
sorry all you guys are completely full of shit at this point.
ZING!!
yes, yes but i’d argue it’s worse now. it’s out in the open for all to see. there used to be some moral fig leaf to hide behind because who could say for sure if we were in central america or asia or wherever advising death squads.
You’re angry because you feel like your ‘moral fig leaf’ has been taken away?
i’m not angry. i’m saying it’s impossible to ignore our official international bad guy status and it’s hard for me to get too excited about this election. and now that the killer mormon death robot has been beaten down, i think this continued ridiculing of anyone who criticizes him is bs
Maybe if the criticisms often didn’t take the form of hyperbolic conspiracy theories and demands for God-like acts or wand waving there would be less ridicule?
And NO the killer mormon death robot has not been beaten down…
You’re a child. You embarrass yourself. Like I said, get a grip and grow the fuck up.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/sep/25/study-obama-drone-deaths
hope!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Menu
fig leafs!
nope.
try this: Obama is bad on this issue; it’s disheartening and disappointing. Romney will unquestionably be worse. Romney wants to torture people; he is proud to tell us all about his plans to expand the torture business. and there is no third option; one of those two is going to win it. so let’s call that issue a wash.
but there are other issues that matter to me, and to most other people. and for me (and for you, i suspect) Obama is better on them than Romney. so, Obama (and the rest of the Dems) need to win. and i’m not going to go pout in the corner with Conor and the rest of Team Purity, i’m going to do my small part to help Obama and the Dems win because the alternative will a total fucking disaster, in all areas.
you live in a solid blue state? well, good for you. i live in NC, where every fucking vote matters (Obama won it by 14,000 votes in 08). and if we in NC and the rest of the close states are going to win this thing for you and the rest of the solid blue states, we don’t really need the constant drumbeat of “Obama sucks” from our ostensible allies. if you’d prefer to continue benefiting from not having a GOP President, we could use a little less pouting; and if you can’t give even bland support, maybe a little STFU ?
in other words: cast your protest vote. and be happy you can. but until then, maybe you could stop trying to talk people out of voting for Obama because all of us in these blasted swing states are the people who are going to have to scrape up every last vote in order to keep the GOP out of power, not you.
your dissent has been shut down ? oddly, i can still read it.
i blame Obama.
obama is nixon and pakistan is laos. got it. so does that make you a republican?
Not at all, but I also not the one demanding Obama be held to a different standard than every other American president.
How’s this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone
this is a reasonable response i’ve got no real problem with but you’re leaving out the “so shut the fuck up” part.
my question is, after the election will we all start linking to greenwald or will it be all about the mid terms and we have to stfu or we might lose the congress!!!!
i don’t think these links are helping you :)
Travy, keeping Democrats in control is the goal…
If you feel you can do a better job than run for office. You will also remain free to complain about how things are being run.
I do think demanding everyone agree with you is expecting a bit much.
fuck Greenwald.
IMO, the midterms seem like a great time to put a bunch of lefties into primaries against blue dogs and vulnerable Republicans.
Yah, I really didn’t expect you to get the point of those links.
just cut back on the unicorn jokes
I swear to Chuy, you are the all-time most tiresome poster I’ve seen.
You have no problem calling those you disagree with a “lynch mob”, but “unicorn jokes” are a bridge too far. Such delicate, hypocritical sensibilities.
Two unicorns walk into a bar….
You don’t help portray yourself as not being a one issue voter if all you harp on is the one issue that seems to matter to you, which is Drone Strikes.
I don’t like drone strikes, I didn’t like full Alpha Strikes launched into the heart of Babdad either, nor do I like the prospect of the Neo-cons, who work for Romney, regaining power and sending the 1st Amoured Division over to Iran to scatter depleted uranium around the countryside, like they did in Iraq (twice).
If you want to get any traction on this site please enlighten us on:
1) Why nobody ever heard from you when the attrocities mentioned above were being perpetrated, prior to Obama getting elected?
2) What’s so special about drones that makes them so much worse than using an F-16 to blow up a wedding party (that happened a lot back in 2003, also see Q1 above)?
3) Why we should be more concerned over what you imagine Obama will do during his second term, than what Romney is saying out loud during his campaign about Iran in particular and his Foriegn Policy in general which seems to be centered around the US being the Baddest MF’er in the world?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTrL_eIEyvg
“I’d quit because I’d had a belly full of killing.”
Also, don’t forget, we a all taking turns fluffing the President.
Damn …
What kind of output are we talkin’ here?
Psst: we have to WIN the Congress for that to be a concern in the midterms.
Travy writes: obama is nixon and pakistan is laos. got it.
The fact that you don’t see any difference between carpet bombing and a narrowly targeted drone strike is significant, and a pretty good thumbnail of the reason for the derision pointed at you.
You might also be interested to know that our presence in Afghanistan is part of a NATO mission designed to bring the country back from the chaos caused by Bush’s invasion and subsequent government overthrow. Bells are tough to unring, you know?
The blood, if on any hands, would be currently on those of the “insurgents” as we refer to any crazy ass local with a tribal mentality and an IED, who are responsible for the vast majority of civilian deaths, not American soldiers.
The mission is on schedule, by the way, with troop withdrawals scheduled to begin at the end of the year.
If you would read more carefully, and something besides Obama detractor editorials, you’d know this.
Sorry to “shout you down”, you poor snowflake. I assume “shout you down” to be some sort of euphemism for “refuse to agree with or endorse your view.”
Two important things happened in this post/thread.
1. Travy has made it clear that the most important thing for the country today is for him to have the ability to pontificate (a little too loudly) at his next backyard BBQ – after one too many Michelob Ultras – that HE wrote in Jill Stein, and therefore he is not to blame for the resulting sorrow and blood from the Romney administration.
2. Tbogg FINALLY used ‘bathysphere’ in a post. Thank you for that, sir!
Holy shit! Decker is a replicant too?
“Bathyscaphe, bathyscaphe – what iz ‘bathyscaphe?’”
the most important thing, to protest people, is that they are known as protest people.
(JfL)
It’s what Dennis the Menace pulled off on Saturday night when his Mom wasn’t looking.
You do understand that when you go to the “chosen one” place, the “cock in the mouth” place, you have fallen off the rainbow and locked arms with the Armies of Satan, right?
How about if us Obama fluffers just stipulate to the following, and save you the keystrokes reminding us of what we already know:
1) Drone strikes are a wound on the national psyche;
2) Guantanamo is still open for business, which stinks to high heaven;
3) Geithner, Summers et al ad infinitum should be trimming hedges at a medium-security fed prison, or, what the hell, getting their hedges trimmed in gen pop;
4) Bush and Cheney should be impeached and convicted in absentia;
5) Single-payer blah blah blah;
6) the rest that we already know and which pisses all of us off, including the piece-of-shit grand bargain that Romney would dump as leftist capitulation.
Samuel L. Jackson – Wake the Fuck Up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=og35U0d6WKY
One is reminded, reading the most prolific contributor to this thread, of the key phrase in Dorothy Parker’s classic review of The House at Pooh Corner: Tonstant Weader fwowed up.
Let me call BS on this one, right here:
“Gore really refused to fight and the democrats in the Senate refused to block the election of Bush which they could have done if they thought it was important”
Obviously you have NEVER seen any of the millions and billions of bytes that Somerby has put out on the subject of the 2000 elections. Despite all that, Gore *almost* pulled it out and Florida would have been a non-issue if not for fucking Nader.
Of course congress wasn’t going to block it after the Supreme court ruled. In fact Gore cast the decisive vote IIRC.
Came across this this morning over at Pierce’s, and have been trying to find an unbleeped version (I’m a big boy and can handle it, honest), but so far no soap.
FYI, a missive from Ken Knabb, a long-time radical activist (nice guy, based on one meeting some time ago, expert on Rexroth and the Situationists, among others)), who concludes this year’s analysis with:
Perhaps the purist crowd might pay attention to Knabb. They should. He’s about as pure as you can get. And:
Here you go.
http://www.wtfu2012.com
Ah, thank you. Much better.
tanbark wept.
Bathyscaphe
Darn i missed all the fun and games here at the shallow end of the Lake. Our own Eric Cartman like somewhat humorous blogger sure knows how to stir up the mud and bring clarity to the issues.
The usual characters have surfaced from the muck to croke and smoke about purity and ponys while the realists drone on about how a little baby killing is much more moral than lots of baby killing.
Then right on time someone drags up the mummified corpse of Ralph Nader and points and screeches, he killed all our dreams.
By all means be a good Democrat, vote early and vote often, someone in Spain will be counting them since that has been outsourced too.
I’m glad YOU people read this stuff and discuss it so I don’t have to.
All said and done, it became incredibly suspicious about the 3rd Mittens Gaffe that the rigging of this erection might be rigged.
NO ONE, NO ONE or party, does this bad as GOP/Mitts, at this level.
You can’t blame the TeaBaggers for this, they HATE Mittens. And have said so. Lack of support for the Mormon within his own party is incredible.
I can only go all tinfoil, as I did months ago, and suspect it’s all rigged to get Obama re erected.
And in his second coming, I fully expect SS, Medicare, food stamps, welfare and all social services programs to be hacked, butchered, and privatized . . . and watch for a big war to spring up, and unify all we the people who are not black, brown, asian, red or any other color than white (mulatto’s are tweeners, depands on the photo ops needed) all the while as we plunge into an empire’s worst nightmare.
It’s full on domestic and international collapse.
Having said that, TBogg yer as sharp as usual, I’m glad the site at FDL fixed the problem they were having for 36 hours (bless you Brian for your insistence directed at the advertisers who screwed up the code) and well, I’m still sippin, suppin and pickin and sangin thru it all.
I could be the poster child for Nero, only no white sheets or lyre, it’s me, my khaki shorts, tie dye shirt and my dobro.
Best to all.
Oh, I also abandonded the DIMS earlier this year, I’m now a full on socialist! Yay Jill Stein! *G*
Yet another fully owned and operated corporate fascist hack?
What IS it with you liberals faux progressives?
Think outside the system, cuz the system is fully bought and owned.
From ballot voter machines to the tallies, to voter suppression, and more.
Each, and every, erected and anointed offal who serves at the top levels (and mostly in all cities, towns, villages) is bought and owned and coopted by corporate fascism . . .
I’ll vote, but it’s a joke of a system at this point. That liberals really think we have a two party system with differences is the biggest laugh I get every day on this rock.
Anyone want some cold Bushmills? A lil mesquite fired big red meat? Pick a fast one, People’s Key of G?
“She walks thru the corn leading down to the river.
Her hair shone like gold in the hot morning sun.”
*G*
Beautiful. Spot on.
Well now, so far, how’s that worked out for us since um, JFK or LBJ?
1) Deregulation
2) Caving to the right to move the center right
3) Failing to stand for LGBT, Womens, or Voter’s rights FULLY.
There’s more, but I think you get my drift.
The DIMS are fucking we the people better n the GOP could ever HOPE to do.
If ya can’t wrap that one around yer cranial netherlands, then yer just too far gone to care about.
*G*
Where’s the like button? *G*
Wait till ya see what Obama has in store for us, FDR/LBJ programs and more in his second coming. ;-)
You ever consider it was rigged, full and fully, that way?
Do you actually believe we LIVE in a democratic social republic with representative voting?
If so, I got this pony with a horn on it’s head, and it shits rainbow glitter. Yours for only, oh, my retirement needs.
Call it, a buck two fifty.
*shakeshishead*
WTF You just going down the thread to find some smart alecky thing to say? Fuck off.
*G*
When was the last time YOU contributed anything funny, real, factual or well, real, to this forum or any other?
I will NOT fuck off, I WILL ridicule you and cause you to get all itchy down there every time I post.
Yer not only useless, yer killin me.
It’s a fair question.
Shorter TBogg: it is okay when Obama kills the scary brown people.
Geesh. What a joke to dismiss the murders committed on behalf of this president.
And if you think Obama is any better on social issues you are fully yourself.
Good. I love it. Nothing to say of any more value than the last fifteen posts? Like Rommey?
“Friedersdorf doesn’t seem to care one iota about the horrible economic and social policies a Romney administration would enact”
But since Obama’s economic policies have been so much worse than George W. Bush’s, there is no standing to claim that Romney’s would be worse.
Growth of Income Inequality Is Worse Under Obama than Bush « naked capitalism
As for social policy, Obama’s signature achievement was copied from Romney’s signature achievement.
“The fact that the social agendas of Obama and Romney with regard to the poor, the elderly, women, gays, the middle class, and college students are as different as night and day doesn’t factor into his equation”
Obama’s administration banned over-the-counter sale of the Plan B pill and wrote abortion restrictions into the Affordable Care Act. Obama has offered cuts in Social Security and Medicare to the Republicans to get their help in his precious fight against the deficit. His administration has fought hard to keep the Defense of Marriage Act in place and dragged its feet on repealing Don’t Ask Don’t Tell until gay Americans threatened to withhold their donations. He and his appointees are perfectly alright with removing teachers’ unions from schools and replacing them with corporatization of education.
But at least Obama also kills innocent people with missiles too.
“Shorter TBogg: it is okay when Obama kills the scary brown people.”
As long as none of them are gay, I suppose it’s alright.
Yep, I’m sure Romney was just waiting to come out for gay marriage before Obama went and ruined it by beating him to it.
GMAFB.
I love how accusations of those us whose side Conor joined today–accusations of being lost in our “privilege”, in particular–have been largely lobed at us by white and/or male people with comfty jobs or other cozy platforms from which to shoot off their fat mouths. Seriously, TBogg, you’re the self-crowned king of privileged liberal blogging–or is that crap about you coming from a family of academics [ahem, *privileged*] that you like shoving in people’s faces really just a cray-cray hipster joke?
I, a disabled woman who struggles to find work, finds this silliness not surprising. You privileged folk sure love projecting. And when that doesn’t stick, you just go straight for middle school-grade bullying, like this. Classy. Did your family of academics teach you that?
Oh and yeah, sorry that Conor had to go rogue so noisily, but he made a great point about how the flack he got over the suggestion of withholding votes means in fact withholding votes is effective, contrary to critics who have been saying this is all purist posturing and cowardly, empty gesturing. Funny shit. Really. You liberals are more and more like the GOPers every day, howling at the wind like fools and wondering why rational people are repulsed by you.
“Yep, I’m sure Romney was just waiting to come out for gay marriage before Obama went and ruined it by beating him to it.”
Considering how many prominent Republicans–like Dick Cheney of all people–were in favor of gay marriage long before Obama, that is an insupportable statement.
I don’t agree w/ your assessment, TBogg, but I found all this interesting, because I had a back and forth with Connor on Twitter months ago about something he alluded to about Jill Stein, which was factually inaccurate.
Despite my pointing him to the facts (link), he kept refusing to fess up that he’d misportrayed her position. This was on the price-tag of her Green New Deal, btw.
Anyways, though I agree with the points he made — those issues are extremely important to me — I think the fact he chose a libertarian over Jill Stein speaks volumes about his core beliefs on economic justice.
I like you. You pay attention.
“…social policies as different as night and day…”
Give you this, Tbogg, you’ve got more bi-partisan cojones than King Kong, to pimp shit like that.
Apparently, supporting a president who blows up people on the other side of the world in the hopes that he will give people at home more benefits is an act of moral courage. Who knew?
Thanks! I like you too. Good luck in finding work. I’ve been looking for over a year, myself.
I’m sure all the union-busting job-offshoring free trade deals Obama has been negotiating and signing will do wonders for the job market.
Also…”beating him to it…”
You mean, like 24 hours after Gays and progressives got the living hell kicked out of us in North Carolina, and THEN, Obama (faced with a growing mini-shitstorm) “evolved” to the point of crawling out from under his desk?
And don’t forget that he didn’t do it without giving John C. Calhoun’s mummified ass that glute-rub by saying that states should still have the right to vote on it.
Jesus, the courage of the man would bring tears to a herd of swine…
Exactly. He has the courage to make a statement but not to sign an executive order banning discrimination against gay Americans by federal contractors. But signing a piece of paper is too hard, apparently.
Income inequality. I’m pretty sure Obama is responsible. But there is this little thing that happened under Bush called tax cuts.
And oh yeah the economy tanked. But as the table shows the wealthy really racked it up. They did much better than the bottom 99% under Obama. But then there was an awful recession. Perhaps you missed it? Unemployment is still around twenty five million. That have something to do with the differential? Oh yes, I know. Obama did it. Congress had nothing to do the past two years and damn don’t mention Bush’s hand in this for eight years.
Now wait a minute, TK, let’s not go off half-cocked here. :o)
Getting Tbogg to blather about something besides Ann Romney’s shoe closet and high-dollar horse habit, is like pulling teeth.
In fact, I nearly swooned when I saw him use the word “drones”. Talk about being dragged kicking and screaming into the real world…I’m grateful for all we can get. :o)
but, I’m with you; Tbogg’s interest in “social programs” (The ones that Alan Simpson, Obama’s co-chair of the catfood commission, likes to slag…) doesn’t impress me as long as Obama’s slaughtering Afghan women and children.
It would be really nice to tell us what Romney and the Tea Party are going to do. I mean we all understand that killing those who want us all dead is just fucking wrong. We really should let them alone or send in a hundred thousand troops so we can watch them get killed. But what will Romeny do for oh I don’t know about SSMM, unemployment, taxes, education? You know what?
Straight up, Tbogg:
Tell us how Obama is going to implement those “social programs” that are so different from Romney?
And while you’re at it, you might tell us why you think he’ll even TRY, since, when he had those big congressional margins, he laid down for the republicans like a cur dog.
Pssssttt! Did i mention that unless the democrats pull off a political miracle and retake the House, John Boehner is going to continue to be the de facto head of the Republican party? Would you like to review Obama’s track record in dealing with him?
Just askin’… :o)
Hell, forget Romney; what’s Obama going to do about them?
When he had that 79 seat majority in the House, and the 18 seat majority in the Senate, what did he DO about them?
PLEASE! I really want to hear this.
It’s a fair question.
I know you don’t want to hear it. But tell us WTF is Romney going to do? If you can’t talk to that, why are you here, just to bitch about Obama? I know they want to repeal Obamacare but what will they replace it with? And I know they want a voucher program for Medicare? And what will they do for medicaid? Unemployment insurance, taxes, abortion, womens rights, LGBT? Pick a few and write a diary on them. I understand they want to eliminate the minimum wage?
Yes.
Because, of course, Cheney was paving the way for same-sex marriage waaaaaaay back in 2001.
No, I’m here to ask the “O” mousketeers embarrassing questions. :o)
BTW, ‘Dot, Romney hasn’t been the preznint for the past four years.
He didn’t sell us out on a public option when he had a ton of political clout. That was Obama.
He didn’t have Reid kill the Dorgan amendment.
He didn’t have Pelosi stuff that effort by some House dems to strip the HMO’s of their exemption from our antitrust laws.
He didn’t pee himself like a little puppydog when Breitbart and Faux got after Shirley Sherrod for her “racism”…
again, that was brave, brave, Obama.
Whatever Romney might do, we KNOW what Barack Obama does, even when he’s got the political hammer.
So, my question for you stay-the-course pom-pom wavers is:
What do you think Obama will do? Can you talk about that?
And while I’m at it, here’s a little zinger from Ted Rall…who was on here just a couple of weeks ago:
http://news.yahoo.com/comics/ted-rall-slideshow/
I have sort of suggested above what Obama has done. I have no idea what the other asshole will do though.
Yawn.
Why don’t you answer @117?
I’m pretty sure one or more of these trolls is off looking for something moving to say. But I have to get going early in the morning.
But Obama and the other Democrats copied some of Bush’s tax cuts. Then they sought cuts in Social Security and Medicare to help pay for those cuts. Not to mention the billions being funneled to the wealthy with quantitative easing, the lack of Wall Streeters prosecuted for financial crimes, the no-strings-attached bonuses, no help for unions, etc.
let’s see, we’ve got “chosen one,” Obama’s “cock in our mouths,” “glute rub,” “second coming,” a “rigged” “erection” (the first actually no-shit funny thing), “cranial netherlands” the shitting of “rainbow glitter” and the non-aggressively sexual “pom-pom wavers.”
Quite a schooling for the tbogg fascisti!
ALL
ONE
GUY
!
!
!
I see the paranoids, the manic-depressives, and the bed wetters have shown up on time.
Still a shame that tanbark hasn’t gotten around to starting up that true progressive blog where like minds can sit around and say “yeah!” while anxiously looking for affirmation from the others. But, like building viable third parties, that takes work and it’s easier to stand in the street shouting at buildings that life isn’t fair.
The forest fire smoke is clearing and my sunset was sub-par.
I blame Obama.
By the way, Jill Stein fans – Guess who’s just decided that the good Doctor is their new best friend because they’ve pegged you as useful idiots who can syphon enough votes from Obama to get Mitt Romney elected? What lovely and depressingly familiar company you’re keeping.
Upon further review:
You and those who share your opinions have had several years to make your case against Obama. Progressives across this country have had sufficient time to consider your case against Obama.
The verdict is in. Progressives have rejected your overall case against Obama. In numbers approaching unanimity they are going to vote for Obama.
Would y’all mind telling us what color the sky is on y’all’s planet?
LOL!
It’s probably trying to figure out a smart-assed non-answer.
The least of all evils
How can Friedersdorf vote for someone who, if he wins, will not be able to govern except through Congress, and who therefore will continue to authorize drone strikes? Gary Johnson is imaginable as an alternative only insofar as he is not actually going to ever participate in governng the country. Give him the least chance of actually being any factor at all in setting actual public policy, and any position he takes that does not conform to the rigid and unthinking consensus the whole system takes to “defense” either boots him right back out of power, or he changes that position to conform.
If you don’t actually want your guy to win, if you’re not actually thinking in terms of real public policy differences his winning or losing make, why not vote for me? My positions are even nicer than Johnson’s, plus I’m a great dancer and a snazzy dresser.
So Mitt’s beat and you’ve grown bored of mocking him, but mean girls like you have to hate, so you took this as an opportunity to bully the wayward left.
No. Conor is actually a conservative. Having said that, I don’t consider them the “wayward left”. Illogical, childish, and possibly suffering from sort of cognitive dysfunction, but not wayward.
In her article, Ms. Solnit describes wayward leftists who aren’t voting for Obama as “rancid” and “flies” that need to be “brush[ed] aside,” but has the temerity to also complain about “dismissiveness.” She is an a**hole.
Do you Tebow?
So the Ol’ Perfesser has penned a largely positive story based on his interview with Dr. Jill Stein. Well, that may not convince many folks,
DemonratsDemocrats or otherwise, but it works for me. As I’ve complained about elsewhere, I’ve quietly seethed with smoldering rage, and shed many a bitter tear, ever since the 2008 V.P. debate between the Grizzly Mama and that hair plug dude. She winked – AT ME! – and he didn’t.Why did you take me for granted, Joe? Did you think I wouldn’t notice, or would forget??? It’s like I was taken advantage of behind the bleachers, then thrown under a speeding bus bearing down on me as I lay helpless on the railroad tracks. That’s right, a bus on rail tracks, such is the sense of betrayal I’m feeling, …from the sheer perfidy of it all.
So I’m going with the positive vibes I get from that article by taxpayer-funded Perfesser Robot-Fetish guy: it’s Dr. Jill Stein for me!! No one takes advantage of my feelings that way; NO ONE!!
Pony?
Would it be too much to ask that Robert Alexander Dumas be Dr President Jill Stein’s VeePee?
Ah, I see. You call people with whom you disagree “mean girls” and “an a**hole” so it’s obvious that your delicate sensibility would be mortally wounded by being called “rancid” and compared to “flies.” I’d be fascinated to know your reaction to Ken Knabb (see link at 81).
RAD might work out in that role – with his guitar-playing chops and intense man-vibes, he might offer some complementary traits that would mesh well with Dr. Stein.
But I’ve been thinking that Thomas Friedman would be a better fit. It’s a shame that Duncan Black mocked that whole “success-is-just-six-months-away” business; after all, what is that but another version of Keep Hope Alive? Hope has always been essential for the members of our species – maybe for dolphins, elephants, and crows too, but I’m not authorized to speak for them – and this in fact has been acknowledged since time immemorial. For example, it is conceptualized here and elsewhere, though in practice it may need a bit of work to remove the rough edges.
So, Thomas Friedman for Veep!
Oh Lawdy Lawd, another one of those “LBJ would have put Nelson’s nuts in a vise until he got what he wanted” arguments. Do tell us all how the magical Senate fairies did not tell Obama where the pixie dust was and now we’re stuck without a public option. And remember to show your work.
I believe Peggy Noonan is authorized to speak for the dolphins, Karl Rove for the elephants and currently Reince Priebus at least for the Jim Crows.
Italiam non sponte sequor.
Well, yeah, Aeneas was a dick at that point, but he got better, though never did he get it all together, to say the least. We’re all headed there anyway, probably, to slaying Turnus. But maybe there’s something redeemable in our having cared about and tried on behalf of somebody else, tender and young, somebody not ourselves. Keep up with the opposition to drones, and much more, since the tender and young are everywhere (including Turnus himself) — after the election, preferably the election of somebody who might just listen to our pleas? (I dunno — I think all this is called original sin.)
Yeah, I hope that someday we’ll be a civilized species, even though I won’t be around to see it. In the meantime, I’ll vote for the less evil choice among (between) those candidates with the greatest chances for winning,… like I’ve always done. Within the range of more sucky to less sucky that is available to us in just about any national election, IMHO we’ve done fairly well, notwithstanding HAMP {grr} and non-prosecution of the Wall Street Termites of Doom {grrr}, just to name a couple issues.
{It would though really be perversely entertaining to see the Moustache of Understanding have a try at politics. And you should know, he has pondered environmental policy too.}
You know, I wonder who is going to care when we finally lose the benefits of The Last Honest Man in the Senate™ when he retires; it’s like no-one cares he was the VP candidate in 2000 and one of the Democratic majority votes until he lost the Democratic primary.
I mean he and the Blue Dogs had their hands full trying to save Obama from Himself, and it’s like no one even remembers.
Those are the real haters.
“Progressives for Obama” is some funny oxymoron. Prigressives without principles, would be closer to truth. The Democratic party is as “liberal” as were Republicans thirty years ago. You Obamatrons are so sad, twisting yourself in knots, reinventing the myth at HIS every right-turn. Still gotta laugh at it though. And vote third party for a better future eventually, not the same shit as today.
PONY!!
:-)
How does that work?
1) Vote third party
2) …
3) Get better future eventually (“not the same shit as today”)
How far off is this better future? What happens in the meantime? Your sophisticated political analysis deserves to be fully elucidated.
-dmd76 (a sad Obamatron who makes PillBilly laugh)
Yay! I knew they’d eventually show up! Better open some windows, TBogg. It smells like pony shit and hippies in here.
so just to sum it all up, the ‘manic, childish, unstable, wayward left’ shall not speak ill of obama lest we tilt the election to the republicans and even after the election is a foregone conclusion we shall not speak ill of obama because… well just because….
this is why i spend more time in the ocean than online these days. too many assholes.. praise tboww!
If you vote third party, then a better future without the single corporate party (with two teams) is decades off in the future.
If you continue to vote for the corporate party, then a better future is NEVER since you did not try to make things better. Instead, you continued the game.
Personally, I have long ago decided I am okay with WHATEVER stupid domestic policy that the American people and their elected politicians want to impose on themselves. And I seriously mean that. They can frack themselves to death, and I am okay with that.
But I am going to vote to stop this kind of shit (all of these items have happened in the last month or two):
September
-we are supporting al Qaeda in Syria, just like we did in Libya in 2011. HRW says they have tortured and executed some detainees.
-al Qaeda in Libya was behind the violence in Libya that killed Ambassador Stevens, who worked for the State Department. He died from the violence he helped unleash.
-and Clinton spoke out and blamed it on Mali al Qaeda elements. I guess that means drone bombings in Mali.
-while at least a dozen CIA agents were flown out of Libya the same night as the attack on Stevens. There was a major CIA operation going on there.
-MEK declared no longer a terrorist group on State Department list, achieved via spending lots of $$$ on US politicians. This money probably came from Mossad, and they are likely behind the bombings of scientists in Iran.
-meanwhile, it is okay for Americans to fund the Syrian “rebels” with weapons, while we have Americans sitting in jail for giving medicine to Iraqis during the sanctions of the 1990s. The US government continues to supply Syrian “rebels” with funds, arms, assistance, as does Saudi Arabia. This is same situation as in Libya, except for the air bombing. And in Afghanistan in the 1980s.
-CIA agents lost their appeal in Italy. 22 CIA agents were convicted of kidnapping (rendition) and torture, and sentenced to 7 years in jail. They can never go to Italy or Europe again.
-the ‘green-on-blue’ violence in Afghanistan caused the US to stop working with the Afghan military that they were training.
-eight women/girls were killed and 10 more injured by US bombings in Afghanistan. They were collecting firewood, early in the morning.
-29 were killed in 8 days of drone bombings in Yemen. Four of them were children.
-sent 200 Marines to Guatemala
-we have Special Forces in over 120 countries currently.
-report from HRW on how the US sent al Qaeda suspects to Gaddafi in Libya, based on information found in bombed buildings, and today some of these men are political leaders in Libya. Obama administration does not give a shit.
-al Qaeda flag raised at the US Embassies in Libya and Egypt
-a report from Stanford and New York universities’ law schools “Living under drones” showed the terror and horror and illegality of US drone strikes in Pakistan. Outrage at the “double tap” drone attacks, as documented in the “Living under drones” report. Obama administration does not give a shit, same for corporate TV in the USA.
-Taliban release video of attack on NATO base in Afghanistan.
-FOIA requests show that Assange is listed as an “enemy of the state” and all he did was journalism. Obama administration wants him dead without any trial.
-innocent man dies at Guantanmo – he was cleared for release years ago, and spend 1/3 of his life in the prison there even though he was never found guilty of anything. Obama administration does not give a shit.
-People in Iraq, especially children, are still suffering horribly from our war of aggression and occupation of their country. Cancers and birth defects are exploding. An Iraq War Veteran recently said this: “I have a certain sense of relief that I get to share in the sufferings of the Iraqis. We were conducting those burn pits in agricultural fields…. Americans are gaining awareness of the impacts of burn pits on soldiers, but not the impact they will have on Iraqi civilians.” This veteran died of cancer last month, which he thinks came from his time in Iraq in 2004. His name was Joshua Casteel. Yes, we bring the freedom of the grave even to our own. He was wrong that Americans are gaining awareness of what is happening to our veterans. No one is noticing or caring, as far as I can tell. Obama administration has made no comment on this.
And pretty soon we will have Americans sitting in jail for trying to get medicine to Iranians to stop them from dying, thanks to Obama’s economic war on Iran. This is a war of aggression, in my opinion, since I cannot see what harm Iran has done to the USA.
Quite the list, isn’t it?
better take your meds dancewater. the killing goes down so much more smoothly
Oh look, a wall of text that doesn’t answer my questions. That said, I agree with you, horrible things are horrible.
I’ll ask again: How does a third party vote now lead to a better future? Are there third party voting fairies?
You make a lot of assertions, but I don’t see any links. And if you don’t trust our government to tell us the truth, why do you believe reports from foreign governments?
Look, nobody likes the killing of innocents, but are you really so naive as to believe there’s anything that we can do about it? The CIA has been doing nasty shit forever, and voting third party isn’t gonna do a damn thing to prevent it. Drones are bad, we get it. Is a mass invasion better? How about waterboarding? Mitt will restore both those policies. And you know damn well that the only benefit of voting third party is it lets you feel smug and self-righteous about yourself. There will never be a Utopian America with a real liberal leader, so accept the things you cannot change.
President Kennedy tried to break up the CIA and you know how that turned out. Do you think anybody else is gonna try?
political pressure must be exerted on the democratic party from the left or we will continue our rightward drift. third parties aren’t the only answer–maybe they’re not even an answer at all in today’s world but sometimes just expressing your views loud and proud can hold our leaders feet to the fire. you know what doesn’t help? mocking the fringe of your own party who are standing up for what you supposedly believe in.
You do understand that Conor Friedersdorf (the object of the mockery at the top of this post) is NOT the fringe of your party or mine, don’t you? He’s a libertarian, concern-trolling Democrats, and thoroughly deserves mockery.
People who would confuse a libertarian like Friedersdorf with any kind of progressive or radical, they deserve mockery too.
Other than that, I happily agree with you (and Solnit and Knabb, both of whom I linked above) that voting for Obama, Reid, Pelosi et al is merely one political act, a compromised one and likely not the most important. In the situation we now face, however, I regard it as essential.
sorry this thread has drifted a bit from the original post. i’m speaking to the larger conversation that’s gone on here re: enthusiasm for obama and the unicorn humpers. specifically, now that the election is in hand, will the left still be slapped and mocked by it’s own for criticism of obama? or do our orders remain, ‘clap louder’?
Your appeal for comity would ring a little less hollow in a comment thread where you didn’t accuse Obama supporters of being a lynch mob who had his “cock in their mouth”. Is it only Obama detractors that get to be rude assholes?
I will continue mocking those who moralize and then pretend that magical thinking and opprobrium are the solution, regardless of their ideology.
you guys hit first. my comments were an attempt to balance out the conversation. these topics quickly turn into a pile on of anyone who dares to point out the problems with obama. yes i said ‘cock’ but what about being called mentally ill, childish, delusional, etc.. i love unicorn jokes as much as the next hippy but when they are used to silence points of view in support of a political party it starts feeling a bit thuggish to me. so i swing back and sadly i have a potty mouth. if this causes you to swoon and your asshole to clench, i sincerely apologize. kumbayah
Wow, the old “but you did it first” excuse! Be rude, travy. Say what you mean however you want to say it. Just stop being a hypocrite. Don’t insult people and then bemoan the lack of civility.
just for the record i think being called a delusional, bipolar child is much worse than saying you have obama’s cock in your mouth. obviously i don’t really think you have obama’s cock in your mouth but you an everyone else here seem to really think everyone who criticizes obama from the left is insane. but yeah, cocks are bad
You must be new.
Shocking! You think insults directed at you are much worse than the insults you hurl at others. Also, the idea that others are being literal when they insult, but you are merely being figurative and, thus, less insulting, is awesome. So you know, I don’t think anyone who called you a child actually believes you are a child. If they do, they are assholes for arguing with (what they think is) a child.
You know, if we all listened to Imagine more often the world would be a less complex and messy place.
I agree that Obama is the favorite; I have have been saying all year that he would be reelected. However, the election is most definitely NOT “in hand” — even at the Presidential level, that’s dangerous thinking, and right now it’s quite possible that the Republicans will retain control of the House, which would be awful, or even take the Senate, which would be disastrous.
I’m not “ordering” you to applaud, I am suggesting that you act like a grown-up capable of making rational arguments and considering the actual situation. Save the mockery for those who really deserve it. In my view, self-described leftists who abstain are in practice complicit with the right, and thoroughly deserve ridicule.
You know, if we all got high and listened to Imagine more often the world would seem to be a less complex and messy place.
Fixed. And I love that song and enjoy getting stoned. As aspiration and recreation, not as worldview.
It’s especially good fun when TBogg uses the “just fucking with you now” tag….
I just couldn’t stand the idea that a self-centered douche like travy gets the last word on this.
Don’t you just love it when trolls who post some childish manifesto claims he’s being shouted down because all of us TBoggobots (like Obamabots, only with bassets) deny his/her/its greatness by daring to disagreeing?
Maybe tanbark, travy and the rest (assuming you’re not the same person) are insulted because they have yet to be invited to eat a bag of salted dicks? Don’t worry – your invitation’s coming forthwith.
sorry but i really do think that many here think i’m in the same league as the double rainbow dude and while they may not think i’m literally a child, they do think i’m intellectually naive and cannot appreciate the grown up thinking they ascribe to.. sounds very ‘serious people’ -like doesn’t it?
and you guys call me delusional and conspiracy minded?
I’m not the one expecting ponies & unicorns. Obviously, those who still “trust” (from the “I Trust Obama” bumpersticker) or believe in Him as a “progressive” (in the most milquetoast definition possible) after almost four years of consevative policies have married the “rainbow” fantasy they were sold in 2008. It’s easier than ever to see, that “Hope” is for dopes.
[Italics and bolding are mine.]
This point doesn’t get anywhere near the emphasis it deserves. So many words are spilled in discussing/arguing/ranting about elections and candidates, and while voting is certainly an important duty, it’s importance practically pales in comparison to what can and should be done otherwise as a responsible citizen. I say that as someone who falls far short of the kind of citizenship standards I think we should be following to the extent each of our individual circumstances permit.
This is why I like Al Giordano so much.* I sure wish he posted more, but he is too busy doing worldwide community activism and organizing (these days, mostly in Central America), and training young journalists to do essential work, often in very dangerous situations. He supported Obama in 2008, and I’m sure he has been disappointed by the Kenyan Usurper dozens of times – he’s mentioned some of those instances in his blog – but he keeps on keepin’ on, doing what he can do himself, recognizing that supporting Hussein Obummer was the best of the options available, but far from a perfect** selection (**”perfect selection” = Unobtanium).
I don’t get riled up much by folks who plan on voting for Jill Stein, Gary Johnson, or any other non-major party candidate – given how little influence and power most of us have as individuals, that right to a vote, under threat though it may often be, is something to cherish, and if the “personal statement” such a vote represents matters that much to an individual, so be it. But mockery is deserved for anyone who goes on a website or other public forum to claim that voting third party for a national-level candidate is going to make a whit of difference, now or in the future, beyond one’s own self-satisfaction; such a claim simply shows a profound lack of knowledge and maturity. You would most likely be doing yourself a favor to keep such a silly claim to yourself (although it is of course your right to share it, just as it is our right to mock it).
*FYI/FWIW, some folks might find this exchange enlightening.
http://californiawatch.org/node/18134
http://news.firedoglake.com/2012/09/27/republican-voter-suppression-efforts-continue/
http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/editorials/scotts-shameless-voter-suppression-effort/1253692
You know what also doesn’t help?
@45: “sorry all you guys are completely full of shit at this point.”
Then when you’re called on your bullshit you have the nerve to get all, “Did you hear that, eh? That’s what I’m on about! Did you see him repressing me? You saw him, Didn’t you?”
Well, Travy, please feel free to share when you have something meaningful, or at the very least, funny, to say.
This whole voter suppression meme is overplayed and well used by both sides of the uniparty to distract people from the real issues, war, poverty and Imperialism.
The Repugs use it to stir the base even though it has little real effect and the Dems use it to stir their base because they think they are under attack.
Both parties actually practice voter suppression when Third Parties are involved as seen in their control of the debates and access to the ballot at the state level.
The best example of voter suppression was the bipartisan witchhunt and destruction of ACORN which was probably the most effective org at registering working class people to vote, mostly for Dems.
http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2012/09/27/thursday-night-basset-blogging-236/#comment-111223
i’m here all week. tip the veal
Cut out the middleman.
Sheldon Adelson 2012.
That’s fucking priceless. Now you acknowledge that Congress actually matters?
No shit Sherlock, there isn’t going to be any sweeping social change if Obama gets re-elected. Nobody here claims there will be, remember we’re the ones who keep saying that transformative change is hard. Obama will still be faced with a long hard fight to correct even a small portion of what is wrong with this country.
Even if Obama gets re-elected; … even if he gets re-elected with a majority (60+ in the Senate) in both houses; … even if he gets re-elected, has a majority (60+ in the Senate) in both houses and all of the Supreme Court Justices suddenly die and he is able to replace the entire Court; He will have a long hard fight ahead of him.
That’s because:
1) The United States is a big fucking Country.
2) There are laws already in place that constrains what he does.
3) The States have a lot of power and don’t always go along with the Fed’s.
4) There are many different Courts with many different jurisdictions, who don’t necessarily take their marching orders from the White House.
5) There is a massive regulatory apparatus that oversees the implementation of policy that is filled with people of diverse political outlooks.
I could keep going but I will stop there. The “System” exists, it is set up to tamp down on radical change, and if you want to make anything happen you have to work within the system and by the way don’t expect anything Earth-shattering to happen right away. There is too much political inertia.
Now if you want to pretend that because:
1) I believe that the above is the political reality that we have to deal with.
2) I don’t share your opinion that all Obama had to do was wave his magic wand to make all the bad things go away and since bad things are still happening, that is proof that there is no limit to the evil Obama is capable of.
3) That I believe that voting for Jill Stein, Ralph Nader or whoever for President is a vote wasted and only serves to put the Republicans, who created the mess in the first place, back in power.
… is a sign that I suck Obama’s Cock, then guess what, I can live with that.
As I’ve made clear many times in the past I don’t respect your opinion. You do not provide any proof of your assertions; your arguments are generally an excellent primer for most of the common logical fallacies. And when asked specific questions about what you believe and why you believe it you run away and hide.
And that pretty goes for the rest of the Unicorn Farting Glitter Crowd that has been chiming in on this thread. If you don’t like the system then what you need to do is stop wasting your time whining about how the rest of us don’t agree with you and if only we would just start huffing Unicorn farts all of our problems will go away overnight, casting useless votes for the Third Party candidate du jour and suggesting that if Romney wins things will finally get bad enough that the proletariat will rise as one and usher in a New Golden age… Come on people, grow the fuck-up. If “W” wasn’t bad enough to usher in the New Golden Age then nobody will ever be bad enough.
I you really believe the crap you have been spewing then why haven’t you started the Revolution already?
I noez! Jokes about bloody dog paws never get old!
travy complains: just for the record I think being called a delusional, bipolar child
I do declare, you are the whiniest creature I ever did hear of.
Wow, did someone really call you a “delusional bipolar child?”
Curiosity compels me to ask: Where, exactly, was that?