Professor Glenn Reynolds, who holds the Jubilation T. Cornpone Shootin’ Arm chair at the University of Tennessee, has a few questions for all you skinny-jeans-wearin’ latte-sippin’ emo-emotin’ prefer-our-kids-alive-more-than-dead fancy-pants gun-grabbin city slicker man-card-less metrosexual homoseckshuls.
Before we get to them, you should probably be aware that the Ole Perfesser fired the first Protect The NRA At All Costs volley last Friday by penning an Op-Ed for America’s Hotel Complimentary Cartoon Newspaper known as USA Today. In it Reynolds began his argument by invoking the words of noted handgun expert William S. Burroughs, whose weaponry CV is limited to shooting his wife in the forehead while drunk (Mrs Dr. Perfesser Reynolds, take note). The law professor then called his second witness: noted academic fraud and cross-dresser John Lott who would love to show you his gun data … but his dog ate his hard-drive after he left it in his other pants with his girlfriend in Canada so, sorry. Needless to say, after a start like that it was pretty much downhill for the perfesser but, to be fair, he had to write it before the bodies of the twenty children and six women at Sandy Point Elementary had barely cooled, and he was under the gun which caused him to shoot from the hip while half-cocked so USA Today and the NRA did not get much bang for their buck.
But wait, he ‘s hasn’t entirely shot his wad yet. Yeah. I had to wedge that in.
Today the Ole Perfesser wants to have a “conversation” about guns and, in predictable Instapundit fashion minus links to all kitchen alliances 30% off at Amazon, he has posed a series of glib questions, most of them exuding subtle undertones of butthurt, victimhood and losing battle. Let’s respond to them with all of the dignitude and deep seriousness with which they were asked, mm-kay?
Why do people who favor gun-control call people who disagree with them murderers or accomplices to murder? Is that constructive?
If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and acts in ways which enables others to more efficiently shoot other people like sitting ducks … it kind of fits. As for being constructive; we’re here to make better social policy, not friends. Next…
Would any of the various proposals have actually prevented the tragedy that is the supposed reason for them?
You’re going to have to be more specific than that but, as a rule, the use of variables in experiments has a well documented history of often resulting in alternative outcomes. You should ask John Lott about that.
When you say you hope that this event will finally change the debate, do you really mean that you hope you can use emotionalism and blood-libel-bullying to get your way on political issues that were losers in the past?
Emotionalism is a natural response which generally follows an event which has actually occurred. Paranoia, on the other, is a response born of anxiety and delusions of persecution and irrational fear of non-existent threats which has been known to cause people to stockpile guns and ammo because the President is black. Also, using “blood-libel-bullying” is not very constructive.
If you’re a media member or politician, do you have armed security? Do you have a permit for a gun yourself? (I’m asking you Dianne Feinstein!) If so, what makes your life more valuable than other people’s?
You should take that up with John F. Kennedy, Robert Kennedy, Martin Luther King, George Wallace, Ronald Reagan, Alan Berg, John Lennon, Larry Flynt, Selena, Biggie, and Tupac. But please, proceed….
Do you know the difference between an automatic weapon and a semi-automatic weapon? Do your public statements reflect that difference?
I know that automatic weapons are highly regulated in the United States and also that there have been no mass shootings in the US using an automatic weapon. I know that correlation does not imply causation (see below) but isn’t that weird?
If guns cause murder, why have murder rates fallen as gun sales have skyrocketed?
Correlation does not imply causation. Ask John Lott. Or Mary Rosh.
Have you talked about “Fast and Furious?” Do you even know what it is? Do you care less when brown people die?
Yes. It was a fuck up, just like invading a country that didn’t have WMDs, except Fast & Furious was done with less malice and profit incentive. Do I care if brown people die? Lessee:
On the other hand, it’s also true that if democracy can’t work in Iraq, then we should probably adopt a “more rubble, less trouble” approach to other countries in the region that threaten us. If a comparatively wealthy and secular Arab country can’t make it as a democratic republic, then what hope is there for places that are less wealthy, or less secular? - Glenn Reynolds 11/04/06
Apparently more than you do.
When you say that “we” need to change, how are you planning to change? Does your change involve any actual sacrifice on your part?
I’m prepared to give up my right to purchase a military style semi-automatic weapon with a thirty-round capacity and a flash suppressor with which I would normally keep the damn squirrels out of the bird-feeder. It’s a sacrifice but if I can bite the 45 grain hollow point bullet, so can you.
Bless your heart.





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“Blood-libel’? Fuck you Hinderaker, you lying chickenshit.
Everybody knows the stockpiling of weapons has zip, zero, NOT A FUCKING thing to do with protecting your self from the government and everything to do with Wank fantasies about taking the country back from Non-Whites. The only people fooled are a couple of goobers in Kentucky and that dip-shit in Georgia. Fuck, in Arizona they stopped pretending it wasn’t anything more than intimidating hispanics a decade ago.
Then there are the Turner Diaries cultists…
You forgot Gandhi.
You’re welcome.
Why doesn’t he mention god? Everyone knows that if god is all around, in the schools and everything, god would have protected the kids. But since god isn’t, god brought punishment upon us by letting the little children die.
Also, too, we all know that never was a person killed in the name of or because of a god.
Yes, he forgot the godlessness.
::
I was going to respond to the “blood-libel” bit myself. Do conservatives actually think that’s a “thing”? As if 99 percent of the people he’s arguing against would even know wtf he was talking about.
Also, I propose a new term, instead of a “fisking,” Reynolds just got a “Bogging.”
There’s a reason why Reynolds teaches law instead of practices law. Actual lawyers have to be able to construct coherent arguments. Reynolds’s blog and scribblings for the newspaper are Exhibit A.
“Why do people who favor gun-control call people who disagree with them murderers or accomplices to murder? Is that constructive?”
Why do people who favor a ban on abortion call people who disagree with them murderers or accomplices to murder? Is that constructive?
Realistically, yes, it is a personal attack. But Glenn Reynolds and the American right wing have absolutely no moral standing to complain about personal attacks.
Listening to FAUX News on the tevee machine this morning, it seems that they are pushing the mental health angle when it comes to controlling gun violence. Now seeing that they are trying to gut health care as much as possible, lets see how conservatives are going to jibe the two without their heads exploding.
Incidently, (and I’ve heard this argument from other conservative sources) just what the hell does Fast and Furious have to do with all this?
This is a thing of beauty, Tbogg. Well done.
“Would any of the various proposals have actually prevented the tragedy that is the supposed reason for them?”
Uh, yes. If the mother of the killer wouldn’t have been able own a Bushmaster assault rifle, yes, fewer, if any kids in that school would’ve have been killed. And there are several other recommended laws from leading gun safety groups that could’ve prevented or reduced this tragedy.
Question for the GunNutty Perfesser: “In an attempt to lead readers to your point of view, how can you be so stupid as to ask questions where the obvious answers disprove your own opinions? Are you really that shockingly dumb?”
I find it interesting that the folks who are the most vocal about the F&F program are also the ones who didn’t want to close the gun show loopholes, which allowed a fantastic amount of weapons to be bought here and used in Mexico. Most likely it fit well with their “the fewer of them, the better” world view. They still have that but now it’s in the same category as having to worry about the fate of oil soaked pelicans and anything else that can possibly be used to tarnish this Administration(things which they still don’t give half a rat’s ass about.)
Dear Glenn,
I know you will eventually hear about Tbogg’s evisceration of you. I’m begging you – PLEASE stop by and have that discussion with us. We haven’t had a good ol’ wingnut jamboree in the comment section in some time. I’ll bring the pig’s feet and cole slaw!
P.S. If you decide not to come on over, but just decide to lurk, go fuck yourself in the ass with a rusty bayonet.
Sincerely,
Hatmandu
I love the idea of an armed faculty, possibly backed by armed maintenance staff, fending off a madman with an assault rifle. I can see them squeezing off a few rounds from behind desks, crouching beneath the stairways, rushing to the scene in the elevators. The more, the merrier. They’ll be wearing little flag lapel pins so the cops can distinguish them from the bad guy when they arrive. FYI, I own the movie rights to this script and don’t think I won’t sue.
Assrocket is another one of these ‘What I would do is…(favorite heroic fantasy)’, who have never been in any sort of life-or-death situation.
After facing guns, knives, various blunt objects, feet and fists, on a rather frequent basis, in my misbegotten younger days, I have the scars- physically and mentally to show just how resilient and imbecilic humans can be. I’ve given as much misery as I got, in those days, so I am not without blame and dishonor. I have spent the thirty years since (half my life, now!) trying to make the world a better place to live in, try to teach my children a better way to live and try to be worthy of the term ‘human being’ for myself. I find it very hard, anymore, to count flesh puppets like this asshole, and all the others of similar ilk, in that category; human being.
One of my fleeting, sick, sociopathic thoughts is that some feed-up whacko, goes at one (or a few) of the demented icons of racist, mysogynistic, hate-mongering, self-aggrandizing, religious pomposity- and gets all ‘hot metal- downrange!’ on them. Sort of a ‘bring the war home’ kind of thing.
Like Malcolm X said- ‘the chickens are coming home to roost!’, and that time is no doubt, coming up soon. I’m not the guy to go do such a thing, I’m sure there is someone out there who will. And they are just a product of the society that created this whole mess, this terrible way of American life that we settle for. More tragedy, more ignorance, more…America.
A popular conspiracy theory on the right side of the aisle is that the Fast and Furious operation was botched on purpose to turn public opinion against guns.
Because guns are the Jews of liberal fascism. Right, Insty?
They let this man teach constitutional law. The Students at the University of Tennessee Law School should sue for fraud.
Excuse me for being emotional, but I have no interest in having a “conversation” with callous monsters like Reynolds. Fuck him.
Not sure the last time I saw Our Host more angry than funny but it is most welcome.
There’s not one of those 20 children who didn’t have more sense than the Ole Perfesser.
Also too, why not line the halls with command detonated claymore mines or some of those Bond type movie laser traps and other booby traps?
This would make a great video game!!!!!!!
Not since the Valentine’s Day Massacre, anyway. Our government at work!
I think the strongest part of his argument was his citation of William S. Burroughs as an expert on gun safety.
Seriously, what’s the consensus on that piece of incredible idiocy that’s gotta be on par with Sarah Palin’s Thanksgiving turkey massacre. Did he KNOW what Burroughs’ history was when he cited him, d’you think? Was it a thumb in the eye? Or was he just an ignorant fool who cherry picked a hilariously inapt quote from some website somewhere? And has he even blushed from shame?
You’re crossing a two way street without watching both ways, Perfesser.
Not that there is anything unusual about that these days. The states are getting more polarized, more states have legislatures and governors in control of one party and the republican controlled ones are hell bent on making radical change (like rigging the electoral college in blue states but not in red states)- even as many of those states voted for a democratic president i.e. Michigan, Pennsylvania, Ohio.
Even if Feinstein’s proposed AWB passed, the restriction on semi-automatics would not be retro-active. And according to Nate Silver a significant majority of the more than 8 million automatic and semi-automatic weapons are in the hands of republicans, not surprisingly.
So let’s just be clear, Newsweek and USA Today, with the passive assistance of “moderate” Democrats, are perfectly fine with pushing an agenda that says – Moar guns for Republicans and less government support for Democrats.
I’m not saying that we are headed for Civil War but if you really wanted that this is what you would do.
No, no, no; see, you just don’t get it. He used Wm S. Burroughs to show that you shouldn’t mix drinking with trying to shoot an apple off your soon-to-be-dead wife’s head; Insty was just trying to get a firearms PSA in there – to show how responsible and foreward-thinking he is.
A modest constructive proposal for zee victim-posturing pundit.
Federal legislation that makes lobbying institutions and their principal employees (i.e. lobbyists) jointly and individually criminally liable for damages by products or processes for which they lobby. Not only should the Freedom Group have to pay the families of the victims of the Newtown Massacre, but so should the National Rifle Association, Wayne LaPierre, and Rush Limbaugh.
Also welcome are any other proposals to shut down lobbying altogether so that members of Congress will be forced to represent their constituents again.
How about “TBogging”?
Like, TBoning.
Every one of these shit-for-brains, assholes-for-mouths, gun-nutty soulless muthafuckas should be required to stand in front of the parents of these murdered children and take turns to explain to them that their children had to die because access to semi-automatic weapons = FREEDUM!, and access to quality mental health care = SOSHALIZM!
Then each parent will get a turn at pulling a lever that will release a trap door, which will plunge each one of them into a pit of their own accumulated shit. (And by “accumulated shit”, I don’t mean their mendacious, inhuman essays.)
Glenn, that phrase, blood libel, does not mean what you think it means.
What an asshole.
Do you know the difference between an automatic weapon and a semi-automatic weapon? Do your public statements reflect that difference?
Grrrr, if I have to hear one more asshole snarkily ask this question. Because it really matters when you’re firing a 30-round clip into a crowd of trapped and terrified 6-year-olds.
Someone please let the Prof know that he is the enemy. I don’t want to be his friend, I don’t want to have civil discourse. I want him and the NRA completely destroyed.
I am somewhat embarrassed that I am about to be so superficial, but what a sophisticated, knowledgeable looking fellow he is!
Alfred E. Neuman’s cousin, I assume?
Hotel Complimentary Cartoon Newspaper
That’s even better than the Candy Land Gazette, a phrase one local radio personality used to described USA Today.
Don’t let that fancy title fool you. Reynolds is just a regular good ol’ boy who growed up a Methodist (but is now a Presbyterian – which is sorta like a Baptist who can read). Now he’s all hitched up (prolly to his sister, I dunno) and settled down and ready to raise hisself up a whole passel of them fine little shootin’ arn-carryin’ chilruns…
“Why do people who favor gun-control call people who disagree with them murderers or accomplices to murder? Is that constructive?”
Well, Glenn, your position ends in 6 year olds being gunned down. I’d say regarding you as an accomplice to murder is very constructive.
You see, I didn’t call you the actual murderer.
What does the possibility that John Lott is, was or might be a cross dresser have to do with anything?
His titties are a large as his penis fantasy.
That joke may have flown over your head.
Having that, if he was, his NRA Man Card would probably be pulled.
What makes be absolutely incensed in these debates every time one of these incidents occurs is everyone goes on pure emotional overload. As horrible as all the shootings are this year they are isolated by percentages, have not shown a statistically confident increase, and all the most horrible crimes were committed by people who are, or likely were, of dubious character who either had absolutely no criminal record and therefore could obtain firearms legally or who stole the weapons. So for a little perspective:
According to NHTSA records for 2010 the numbers for persons 20 years of age or younger killed in traffic accidents:
< 5 402
5 – 9 353
10 – 15 673
16 – 20 3,441
Look at it: 402 children just under 5 killed in one year alone. Cars are far fucking more dangerous than the estimated 40,000,000 million firearms in private ownership!
What shall we do? Make so no one can own a weapon with magazine more than 10 rounds again? Yeah sure, so it would require maybe 5 more seconds to kill 20 or 30 people than using a single 30 round magazine?
Let's limit caliber? Take anything larger than a .22 out of private hands? the .223 is only slightly different caliber although its a larger more powerful round overall.
And so what, you still are not going to limit all the millions of legacy weapons out on the market that were sold prior to any new law going into effect unless it were made unconstitutional by seizing the weapons. Plus that would cause mass hysteria and validate all the nonsense that 'Obama is here to take are guns away and implement Sharia socialism' or whatever else the wing nuts spread around.
We already have a number of protections in place regarding the sale of firearms. Anyone who doesn't think so, look at the application to purchase a weapon. You feel like a criminal proving your innocence as it is now. Also, Connecticut has some of the most restrictive in the nation. There are very few ways to prevent crime! That’s why it is called Law Enforcement not a ‘pre-crime’ division.
I hardly condone what that boy did, nor any of the other shootings, however if we do not work on the problems that are creating or causing people to come unhinged and then we will have to lock up every conceivable thing that could be used as a weapon to ‘prevent’ someone from taking an innocent life.
The only thing that could be realistically done at this point is to station a police officer at every elementary school. I do not know how many there are, but I think that number would be in the hundreds of thousands if not millions. Who will pay for that in the age of austerity?
It may indeed have flown over my head. First I’m only commenting because I’m home with the flu and second, I’m not going to answer any of google’s questions to read the “reason” link that presumably explains the reference.
(Mrs Dr. Perfesser Reynolds, take note)
Expect a DMOP post explaining how women should be glad to get shot in the head by their
ownersmen, because it shows that they’re giving them proper attention.Aw, diddums.
You want something akin to martial law in order to keep your bangbangsticks? Sorry, no, we decided not to have that conversation any more.
yes, you bastard – just like you used 9-11 to fuckin’ change the debate about iraq.
Except we change the debate to save lives. sickos like you change it to take lives.
there, i feel much better now.
thanks T
Great post.
Is that all ya got? A half-handed insult and a ‘ban all guns solution’. WOW, why bother posting?
when was the last time someone drove a car into a crowd of 6-year-olds to kill them? after using that same car to run over his mother?
you really want to go the equivalence route?
moronic.
The conversation of tactical paraphilia is over, big boy. If that gives you a sad, then have a kleenex.
Predictable response. There are numerous examples of people using their cars as weapons. Just a few years ago some nut job drove his vehicle into a crowded open air market. I do not know how many 6 years old’s were there, but did the person care? Is the life of a 6 year old more valuable then the kids mom who went to buy some fresh vegetables?
Not long before that a woman repeatedly drove her Mercedes over her husband. I can still remember some women I over heard chuckling in quieted voices. I guess 50 year old white males are just shit that needs repeatedly run over huh?
How many handguns did Timothy McVeigh use to kill over 65 children at the Morrow Federal Building? Explosives can be made out of commonly available ingredients and it doesn’t require a chemistry degree. Shall we ban bleach?
If we realistically wish to restrict firearms sales, how shall we go about doing this more than they are? You do not discount my point, you resort to name calling.
The same people get pissed off about the ‘trans-vaginal’ ultrasound laws (which I totally disagree with as well), but would have someone have to pass through some sort of equivalent ridiculous nonsense to buy a handgun. And so what if a person passes all these new draconian tests (whatever they may be)? How is that going to prevent him from going of the deep end and shooting up a playground?
Further if you cannot find an equivalency in one very dangerous thing that Americans absolutely adore which kills 20,000 – 30,000 and another dangerous thing that Americans adore which kill far fewer people by proportion, then I guess you are a tried and true car lover but just hate guns as much as you love your car. You are the one who does not make sense.
Well what do you know. About 15 years ago, Australia banned semi-automatic weapons after a horrendous mass murder in Tasmania. (Yes, semi-automatic weapons – apparently they don’t see a shooter’s trigger finger tiring after a long time blasting away at the flesh of 6-year-olds as that much of a deterrent.)
Turns out they’ve seen a significant drop in firearms deaths and suicides and a decade without any mass-shootings.
http://tobacco.health.usyd.edu.au/assets/pdfs/Other-Research/2006InjuryPrevent.pdf
And they accomplished it without outsourcing their public safety to the George Zimmermans of the world.
Blood-libel? Does this professor know what that means?
How’s this for tactical paraphilia:
If I counted the 6-9 year old age group and added that to the less than 5 year old age group, there would have to be about 36.75 more identical incidences to Sandy Hook’s to add up to the numbers of unintentional and intentional (manslaughter) traffic collisions.
Moving on to 10-15 year age group? 70.4 additional Sandy Hook mass killings before December 31st.
I find your cost/benefit analysis regarding acceptable child deaths and your guilty feelings when purchasing a gun intriguing. Do you have a newsletter that I might subscribe to?
It may not have a statistical correlation, but the Australian economy has done far better then the United State’s in the last decade, and I suspect they have a better mental health and disabled persons safety net. Just some food for thought.
Seriously.
Explain the purpose of a gun and compare it with the purpose of a car.
It’s like comparing babies with bullets.
Guilty feelings when buying a gun? None. I just do not like being interrogated when I am doing absolutely nothing wrong.
I didn’t add any dollars to my statistics. The point was to put one set of horrible facts in perspective to another and add therefore some rationality instead of blind emotional response to an obvious tragedy.
See, I have watched psychologists discuss air disasters and how they get so much airplay and so many people are horrified. Yet air travel is so much safer per capita than traveling by automobile.
In fact there are numerous examples of all kinds of things killing us in mass yet no one get’s in a frothy emotional rage about it because it’s picking us off by the millions- instead it happens just a few at a time and gets virtually no media attention.
“It may not have a statistical correlation”"
Then again it might. Of course, when it comes to Americans and their make-big-noise-shootem-up-fire-penises – they don’t want to hear it, do they?
So – was Lott a gay or straight crossdresser? And……how should I assess the relative devaluing?
Some people must have that “my gun makes my penis bigger” thing and they are the types that cannot even understand to keep their dogs from barking all hours of the day and night.
I suspect however the vast majority of gun owners have other reasons. I didn’t verify it, but I heard on da teevee that there were about 100,000 civilian actions per yearinvolving firearms in their homes or businesses, most of which did not result in discharge of the weapon, to stop or prevent a crime.
Maybe owning firearms does not prevent a crime, but I bet it has more to do with there being some terribly stupid fuckers running around this country. Who would want to risk breaking in a home knowing or not knowing if the homeowner was present? That just strikes me as bout the singly dumbest thing a person could do to make a few bucks.
“has more to do with there being some terribly stupid fuckers”
Sure, that’s what the Australian experience shows – the Aussies have clearly discovered a cure the teh crazy and they’re keeping it a secret from the rest of the world. Something in the Foster’s lager, no doubt.
Sheesh, what moronic thinking.
No, but should we control the sale of ammonium nitrate?
Fuck, yes.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/07/27/ignoring-ammonium-nitrate-law-romney-says-okc-bombing-is-reason-for-no-gun-control/
Have any other dumbfuck comparisons? I saw one idiot today say that 1000 people die every year from having televisions fall on them, and that next liberals will want to ban televisions.
Does that sort of comparison make sense to you, too, chuckles?
I am not even comparing guns and cars. I am comparing deaths to deaths- one set by cars- about 9,000 – 10,000 of those collisions are the result of criminal activity BTW, and the other by firearms.
Just like deaths by or from cars, some firearm deaths are accidental, some are suicidal, and some are criminal. So tell me how that does not compare?
The counter knives in my kitchen can be freely bought at any store. Very handy too, having that nice holster sitting there for anyone to draw in a moment. The biggest one is about 10 inches and looks very impressive. If one were to decide to kill someone with it instead of cut chicken, does it really matter the intent for its use?
I think the ‘intent’ argument is specious.
He used ANFO (which HE MADE HIMSELF) which the AN part is simply fertilizer. The FO part was race car fuel and diesel oil in some proportions. He also had some gas (I think it was acetyline or hydrogen). These are used for so many things it would be nigh on impossible to regulate them to any meaningful degree.
The only thing they needed he couldn’t make was detcord which they stole.
Besides that there are many many other lethal explosive recipes that can be cooked up around the house. All sorts of ways to improvise mass killing if one should choose.
Eliminating handguns or other firearms IMHO will ultimately just shift from one item to another as long as we have emotionally unstable assholes running around without access to any assistance. If I had to choose what some nut job would use for a mass killing, I’d prefer they’d use a handgun than ANFO.
It is ironic when the right basically adopts Pinker’s method of citing a moderating mean in order to minimize the slaughter of innocents as if that could be minimized at all. But the libertarian Nasim Taleb’s method of accounting for the dominance of fat tails, relatively rare but increasingly catastrophic events, get’s closer to the reality of moar guns, less govmint.
As for emotionalism, you first have to cite whether a particular emotion promotes an adaptive response. Then you have to account for the fact that choosing to have a gun in the house in most situations doesn’t increase the odds of successful procreation. The choice to have a gun in the house is basically an emotional choice and statistically an irrational and stupid one. The choice to limit the availability guns after the slaughter of innocents may be emotional repsonse in part but as Australia and several other countries have proved it is a statistically rational and adaptive one.
Kathy–maybe this’ll help: (truncated from Wikipedia entry on John Lott)
“Lott created and used “Mary Rosh” as a fake persona to defend his own works on Usenet and elsewhere. After investigative work by blogger Julian Sanchez, Lott admitted to use of the Rosh persona.[8] Sanchez also pointed out that Lott, posing as Rosh, not only praised his own academic writing, but also called himself “the best professor I ever had”.”
So….a rhetorical cross-dresser, and a dishonest one, at that. Makes me take his blow-dried, carefully pruned “statistics” SOOOOOOO seriously!
Gee whiz. YOU “just do not like being interrogated”… when buying guns.
sob sob… yeah: that’s a *great* reason for not having better gun control laws. It’s all about YOU. YOU got YOURs, EFF those 6 year olds.
Thanks. Got it. Way to go.
You’ve ignored an obvious difference between guns and cars.
Yes, you can kill a person or persons with a motor vehicle. You could beat them to death with an electric guitar, or drop an anvil on their head, if feeling cartoonish.
But in each case this is not the primary use of the murder weapon, and in each case a useful purpose is served other than “weapon.”
This is not so with guns. Killing is the primary purpose, and there is no other use for a loaded gun.
I’ve lived in Hollywood, near Western and Santa Monica, for much of my adult life, and it’s a tough neighborhood. I am nevertheless alive and well, despite being unarmed, except for a Louisville Slugger behind the door at my apartment, and the wits to avoid escalating confrontation.
I’ve been mugged three times in my life, with the result that I’m down a total of about a hundred dollars (that’s for all three). Big deal. If I had been armed with a handgun, it’s not likely that I would been afforded the chance to use it– I simply would have been shot or stabbed before getting the chance to point and shoot. It is more likely that it would have been simply taken away from me along with my wallet.
After these incidents, self-styled tough guys down the pub will invariably tell me that in my situation, they would fucked up that mugger good, by God, and no way would they simply hand over their dough to some crackhead with a gun or knife, no WAY.
Big talk, but at least one of them attempted to make good on his boast in a bar robbery where he refused to give up his wallet to the fellas robbing the bar and patrons. So, they pistol-whipped him half to death– and then took his wallet. Smart move, ace.
Lastly, although as I’ve said, cars serve a useful purpose beyond running folks over, legislatures are aware of the need for measures to limit the likelihood of that happening. Increasingly harsh drunk-driving punishments are one example of that, and I’m sure there are others.
But I still feel that it’s just a disingenuous argument to say automobile deaths are more numerous and therefore should be afforded more concern than gun deaths.
Car deaths are accidents. This was an act of deliberate murder. Someone picked up a tool that was built for the express purpose of killing people, and used it to kill children.
Oh, and BTW – cars are regulated far more tightly than guns. So thanks for supporting the argument that there should be more control over guns.
Hey I didn’t fucking shoot them! It horrifies me to think of that scene. I would have shot Lanza given the chance without hesitation, just as quick as any LEO would have if they had the chance!
Oh puh-leeze. Go get a room to do your wanking in private. That’s pathetic.
Also, Sinestar, a handgun is, unlike high explosives, an impulse weapon, and humans aren’t very good at resisting impulses, reason enough to ban handguns altogether.
Knives, by the way, aren’t often used to kill people, owing to the fact that you have to get real upclose and personal to do the deed, and you’ll get blood all over your nice clean shoes.
The wingnuts are NOW all concerned about mental health? God help any kid who shows the least amount of intelligence or creativity–because I’m sure they’ll find an expert who will attest to the fact that after age 12 there’s a 99% likelihood that he’ll morph into a cold-blooded killer….
“… blood libel”?
I’ll give you blood libel, you soulless husk. The blood of twenty children and six teachers.
Never, never, never ever trust a man who puts principle before actual living human beings.
More tough talk. Statistically speaking, it is more likely that you would have been shot first, or worse, shot someone other than the perp in your haste to act heroically.
Uh, what’s a “LEO?”
I think the Sinestars of the world are here to throw chaff in our face, stick a finger in our collective eye, baffle us with bullshit, throw up a lot of dust, and hope it throws us off the game: the game being, keeping guns out of the hands of mass murderers. The Sinestars of the world do not offer anything constructive on this score except carping, pseudo-intellectualism, and nonconstructive rants that get us nowhere. Really, read through all the blather from Sinestar, and that’s what his/her/its “contribution” adds up to: a big, fat nothing. (Oh, and “whatever you want to do? It won’t work! Next!”)
This is really arguing in bad faith, and exhibit A why the NRA and its apologists ought to lose any place at the table if adult discussion about remedies to mass shootings is ever going to take place. These people have nothing to contribute but “NO!” We don’t need to listen to them, at ALL.
Just parenthetically, I kind of like the term “T’Bogganing,” suggesting as it does a flattening of insubstantial argument into the snows of ignorance from whence it sprung.
Well, let me try again.
First off, firearm weapons primary purpose is to kill. But if someone breaks in my house while I am home and I shoot them, the killing is to defend. They might not die if my aim is off and I just hit them in the leg though. They do also have other purposes. I don’t know if you have personally fired any guns, but I happen to think it is fun. It is also challenging to hit a target with an acceptable spread, like playing darts on steroids. They also can be used to kill varmints or something to eat.
So let’s say for a moment I was smoking crack earlier and the whole connotation with guns and cars is complete bunk.
What as in my first post I posited are we going to do that is realistic and practical that we are not already doing?
Felons, Dishonorable Discharge, being investigated or under indictment for ANY violent office, misdemeanor (look that definition up) DV, renouncing citizenship, and several other stipulations can prevent you from purchasing a handgun from a dealer. Also have to give a thumbprint. Also have to wait three days in most places for some stupid reason (they call it a ‘cooling off’ period). What else shall we do people? Let’s quit with the pearl clutching and insults and tell me what you would do? What ideas do you have that will PREVENT these kind of crimes?
I think we all know, despite the rage, sadness, and frustration that the genie is outta the bottle. And even if we stuff it back in, the SCOTUS with uncork the bottle swiftly.
So again to my original posting, what is practical is looking to what is creating these monsters; there must be some tangible reason in the vast majority of cases why people go completely bat shit crazy and do this utterly heinous crap to innocent people.
That being said, I still stick to my position that car accidents cause more mayhem than handguns but no one cares and there is little we can do with present technology to prevent them. Heart Disease causes more mayhem in society than cars. But look at the ingredients in virtually any prepared foods or processed foods.
You see, shooting even one person is a horrible thing, even when it is justified by saving one’s life or another’s. But let’s guess why Lanza did what he did. I’d guess he wanted revenge on all of us. He chose to do it by making as much of a sensation as he could muster. By not being clearheaded and letting knee jerk emotional reactions carry the day all these fuckers win. Making it harder to buy a gun that it is already will never fix that.
I am still curious if anyone has any rational ways that we can prevent the next Columbine’s up to Sandy Hook’s?
wank wank wank wank… get a room. do it in private.
There’s always a risk someone intent on killing you will get the drop on you first. If the attacker has the element of surprise you are probably going to be on the losing side. If you have the element of defense, you probably are going to live.
I’d rather have a chance than none at all. Doesn’t do much to bring fists to a gunfight as like those poor teachers had only that option. I do not think it makes sense to have armed teachers, but just saying in other places like my house or business or car. I really think the only thing that can be done is have cops in every school. There is a chance they might not see an attack coming too though.
You know the whole things is dreadful in any light but there isn’t going to be a ban on all semi-automatic weapons. The main thing that makes an M4 better than a .223 hunting rifle is the magazine capacity. So see above when I say big deal. SO what else shall we do?
BTW, It means Law Enforcement Officer.
I charge by the hour on my webcam if you have a credit card, lol.
America’s Finest News Source:
NRA Sets 1,000 Killed In School Shooting As Amount It Would Take For Them To Reconsider Much Of Anything
Where’s Wayne Lapierre when the nation needs him?
Even in that unthinkable case, I’m sure the NRA and all their wanking apologists would be out in force wanking away about how wankawonderful it is to own a gun & not have to answer any wanking “uncomfortable” questions to buy one. I got MINE, EFF anyone else.
Don’t believe that 1000 “benchmark,” either.
Indeed.
(But consider the source.)
What as in my first post I posited are we going to do that is realistic and practical that we are not already doing?
God, you’re dishonest.
We could close the gun show sales loophole, and regulate gun sales on the ‘net, where sellers don’t show due diligence with background checks.
We could reinstate the ban on semi-automatic weapons, and stop kidding ourselves that they’re just “hunting rifles with a magazine.” You don’t need a semi to shoot Bambi (or if you’re Sarah Palin, Rudolph, I guess).
And of course this doesn’t prevent you keeping a rifle under the bed for “home protection,” though again, you’re statistically more likely to shoot your spouse, yourself, or the kids with it, than a home intruder.
But you already knew this, so why the bullshit about current regulations in place being enough?
And lastly a handgun ban except in cases where an extraordinary need can be shown (I’m talking about, in addition to LEOs [laughing], say bounty hunters, for example, but not your average Joe, who doesn’t have the need except in paranoid fantasies, and ain’t smart enough to safely own a gun). Sorry, that means you and me, and although you probably flatter yourself that you’re smarter than the average human, I can only respond that ain’t saying much, pal.
Hell no! The Perfessor is from a land where they supersize their PJ punch cocktails, their prions, and their gun clips–and to hell with their IQs.
That being said, I still stick to my position that car accidents cause more mayhem than handguns but no one cares and there is little we can do with present technology to prevent them.
God you’re dishonest (again!).
MADD. Car manufacturers are continually coming up with features that makes cars safer, not only for the driver, but the other motorists as well. Rear-mount cameras, so you don’t run over the little girl on the tricycle when backing out of the driveway. Proximity sensing and reporting devices, so you’ll get a warning if you’re too close to something. On the horizon, intelligent cars and roadways that won’t let you run over pedestrians or into other cars.
But again, you already knew all this, so why the bullshit?
“No one cares,” the nerve.
And by the way, Sinestar, I note that you answer effective refutation of your argument– by merely restating the argument.
Brilliant!
Sinestar is very very good at wanking, but not at much else.
Thank you though for making the salient, truthful, factual points that you did.
Wanking = wanking.
yeah, yeah, that’s the ticket… 1 million kids dead, no, let’s make it 10 million, no really, it should be 100 million, or hey: what’s an even billion amongst Americans wishing to be exceptional, GREEDY, selfish & at the end of the day: stupid fucking wankers easily manipulated by the NRA & the greedy amoral Guns ‘n Ammo industry??? w00t!
I bet people get a surprise at the ingredient list for your extra-special apple pie.
Told you, big boy, your line of conversation has reached the point of absurdity and can now be tossed into the garbage. Schools are not going to be militarized; teachers are not going to be packing heat. Try something else.
OK, genius: here is a simple question:
If Adam Lanza was armed with a 10 inch kitchen knife with intent to kill, do 28 people die that day?
If your answer is ‘yes’ then you are an idiot.
If your answer is ‘no’ then you ought to just shut up.
If your answer is ‘it depends’, you are Wayne LaPierre and you should probably just shut up anyway.
Memo to Perfesser Reynolds, the NRA, et al.:
You just keep right on talking and writing and explaining your fucked up points of view. It will only make us angrier and strengthen our resolve to get rid of your fucking guns. The media says nothing will be done to control guns because the almighty NRA is going to flex its muscle and line political pockets with gold. The media is wrong and you are wrong, because there are a lot more of us than of you and we are REALLY, REALLY ANGRY.
You have awakened a sleeping giant. Think how MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Driving) changed laws and social norms on drinking and driving. Your words and your guns won’t stop us. Politicians who won’t stand up and do the right thing will find their asses on the cold, hard sidewalk.
If you think people feeling strongly about saddling their children and grandchildren with the deficit, you just watch and see how strongly they feel about gun-toting idiots shooting those children and grandchildren–and about people like you who enable these murderers.
And there it is, the old “Why don’t libs want to ban cars hurr.” Never heard that one before. That argument gets dragged out all the time, but it occurs to me that it’s kind of an apples to hand grenades comparison. After all, unlike a car, a gun is not a device used by millions of people on a daily basis, sometimes for hours on end. Rather than using absolute numbers, a more accurate comparison would be a statistical rate like deaths per mile driven. Incidentally, according to the site you linked to, the 2010 rate of automotive accidents in the United States was 1.11 per 100 million miles. I wonder how many people die for every 100 million times a gun is drawn? Think it’s higher than one?
Oh, and in regard to your comment at #65 regarding your presumed skill – have you ever actually been shot at? I ask that because my late grandfather was an Army scout during the Second World War and a county sheriff for years after. People had shot at him many, many times. You know what was the last straw that made him break with the NRA? The assault weapon shit. I tend to place his experience with firearms over some anonymous commenter.
Thanking you and Chris Vosburg for pointing out all the crap in Sinestar’s posts. You said it all better than I could.
Sinestar, I have a suggestion for you. Get a bow and arrows, and learn how to use them.
When you say that firing a gun and target-shooting is fun, I can, to a certain odd extent, relate. It happens that I discovered as a junior hi-school kid, one chilly morning in outdoor gym class, that I have some talent for archery. I was never good at regular team sports, and my eyesight without glasses is awful… but when I first learned to string a bow, nock an arrow, and aim, I realized that if I ever wanted to pursue a sport, this was it. It felt right. I could hit the bulls eye too. It felt smooth, and fun, and gave me a sense of effectiveness. Or, if you like, power.
The bow and arrow – even the plain, ordinary ones used in a girls’ gym class in the 1950s! – is a serious weapon, and our teachers were very careful about impressing this on us, and drilling the precautions into us. But archery is fun.
I don’t know where you live, or what questions you might have to answer to qualify to buy good archery equipment — but if that surge of excitement and satisfaction when you hit the target is your main reason for liking guns, you’ll get it with the effort and control of the draw, the powerful release of the bow, and the sound of the arrow hitting the target squarely.
If it’s a manhood thing, I guess you could reflect that archery won the Hundred Years War for England. That’s pretty macho.
Let’s not forget Glen Reynolds also wants to mate with robots.
Because he is one!
Glenn[n...n] is the rock for which thought goes to crawl under and die
Australia proves you wrong.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/16/opinion/australia-gun-laws/index.html
Since they instituted meaningful gun control in 2996, there has not been a single mass shooting in that country. Not one.
every callous idiot from the Ole’ Prefessor, thru the Powerline Blog to our own sinestar – should be made to watch this – in public view.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itX1AI8Z-nM&feature=player_embedded
We really, really need to shut down the fuckin’ NRA. If they can do it to Acorn with a fake crisis, why can’t we do it with a real catastrophe?
“And so what, you still are not going to limit all the millions of legacy weapons out on the market that were sold prior to any new law going into effect unless it were made unconstitutional by seizing the weapons.” Simple. Voluntary buyback, but instead of money or gift cards, we give penile implants and/or lifetime supplies of ED medications, thus allowing you to not feel the need for a gun in the first place.
Nicely said, Suze, and to sort of button up the thread, hopefully shit’s about to get real: Obama has just announced the formation of a task force to come up with policy proposals to reform current gun law– or rather, the lack of it.
This is not some Washington commission,” Obama said of the Biden task force. “This is not something where folks are going to be studying the issue for six months and publishing a report that gets read and then pushed aside. This is a team that has a very specific task, to pull together real reforms right now.”
He went on to say that he expects the result in January, and will take the recommended proposals before the public in the State of the Union address that month.
Finally, the time for that dreaded National Conversation on gun control has arrived, it appears, whether the NRA wants it or not.
Cars are far fucking more dangerous than the estimated 40,000,000 million firearms in private ownership!
As a last add on your dishonestly and a further rubbing of your nose in it, no they are not, as this graph demonstrates. Further, gun deaths are expected to actually outnumber car deaths by 2015.
Dear me, what an asshole you are.
I don’t know where you live, or what questions you might have to answer to qualify to buy good archery equipment
Not sure this is a good idea, and Tom will agree, after what happened to the poor San Diego Chicken on Free Crossbow Night at Petco Park (home of the SD Padres).
[Yeah, it's a gag, lifted from MST3K].